Fenris-77 wrote:[I'm resigned to the fact that you're not going to address anything that doesn't speak to your theory at this point. Sometimes ignorance is a choice.
Ditto
Wadderboiz wrote:Not all younger players get better. By the "good" ones I'm assuming you mean top prospects an argument I believe I've already put to bed...see Sean Burroughs, Andy Marte, etc No they don't. Except in this case there's some actual evidence that he should, rather than just rah-rah homerism and general youth. Nice try though.
Since you're quoting the experts. "I really like his youth, power potential and improvement at each level."
That is John Sickel's take on Andy Marte in 2005, who he'd tabbed as the #1 hitting prospect that year.
Fenris-77 wrote:Really? If you can't find a team that's big on average and short on homers then you're not looking hard enough. And Swisher certainly holds enough value that you could trade him for higher average and less power. It's called a lateral trade.
Since you don't play fantasy baseball much, I'll let you in a little secret the batting average category is typically one of the closest categories. So no its not as easy as you may think to find someone willing to give away batting average for 25-30 HRs.
Fenris-77 wrote:I very clearly said that of course Bruce is moveable.
Maybe I'm way off here, but isn't that my initial suggestion? Shop Bruce for a proven bat. At no point did I suggest trade Jay Bruce for Christian Guzman.
Fenris-77 wrote:[I'm resigned to the fact that you're not going to address anything that doesn't speak to your theory at this point. Sometimes ignorance is a choice.
Ditto
Wadderboiz wrote:Maybe I'm way off here, but isn't that my initial suggestion? Shop Bruce for a proven bat. At no point did I suggest trade Jay Bruce for Christian Guzman.
Well that's the real trick isn't it? I never said hold on to him at all costs either, but we've both been focused on the extreme ends of each other's positions. Let's try a different tack here - when you say 'proven bat', what level of player are you talking about?
I'm mostly talking about top 50 guys (or maybe call it top 30 or 40 hitters if we want to exclude pitchers). The gap between those guys and Bruce's ADP this season isn't really that big, and the guys in between aren't good enough for me to make the move. I'm not, for example, going to trade him for a Torii Hunter (although I'm certain that's not who you meant either). I wouldn't trade him for an aging slugger like Manny either (not in a dynasty format).
One of my main problems is that you're not going to get a great power bat back for Bruce straight up unless it's an old guy. Guys in their prime will command a higher pricetag. I think you'd have to be talking about a package of players at that point. If we're talking about a package I'd probably try to package him in with Reyes and try to get a big bat and lower end speed guy back (Borbon, Nyjer, ect), while sending out two risky players. I'd want that bat to be at the very least a Sandoval or Morales level player though plus one of the better speedsters who hits .300 and steals 30+ bags. I'd probably start with a target like Votto if I was going to try and package him with Reyes though.
Now we're talking. Probably much to the dismay of this forums readers, I think we agree on something. In the offseason I'd never suggest trading for an aging player, that's a deadline move if you're in serious contention to win the league. Its hard to point to a specific target without seeing the other teams.
I'd say somewhere in the range of Votto, Carlos Lee, Aramis Ramirez, type players who are not on the decline but who you know will be consistant.
On a side I'd avoid ranking Nyjer Morgan too high on your list.
Just for some clarification. I'm not trying to convince anyone to dump Jay Bruce. I'd say shop him while his value is very high, if you don't get a respectable offer than hold on to him.
Further clarification...I'm not suggesting to EVERYONE to go out and shop Jay Bruce. I'm suggesting to this owner, who could use to sure up his BA category, that this be an option he consider.
Wadderboiz wrote:Now we're talking. Probably much to the dismay of this forums readers, I think we agree on something. In the offseason I'd never suggest trading for an aging player, that's a deadline move if you're in serious contention to win the league. Its hard to point to a specific target without seeing the other teams.
I belive you are correct sir. A point of agreement indeed. And yeah, specific players are only useful as general examples (as odd as that sounds), without seeing whole rosters.
Wadderboiz wrote:I'd say somewhere in the range of Votto, Carlos Lee, Aramis Ramirez, type players who are not on the decline but who you know will be consistant.
Hah. That's about exactly the kind of guy I'm talking about.
Wadderboiz wrote:On a side I'd avoid ranking Nyjer Morgan too high on your list.
I have him in the 160's. I actually should have said Borbon or maybe Fowler if I was going to actually hit my targeted value, Nyjer was just the first guy that popped into my head. I like Nyjer, but he's so short on power he can be a tough fit on a lot of rosters (and when you can get a very comparable Juan Pierre a round or two later).
Let me be the first to admit...I was wrong...Bruce won't lose playing time...HOWEVER... .260 and mediocre power #s...sounds like about what I said for Jay.
Kapler's third full season: .267...17HRs...72RBI...77Rs...23SBs Bruce's pace: .265...18HRs...64RBI...90Rs...9SBs
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by Wadderboiz » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:23 pm 
