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Tulo vs. Kinsler

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Re: Tulo vs. Kinsler

Postby J.C.Fighter » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:23 pm

MaudDib wrote:I'll take Tulo. I would have more confidence if Kinsler could show that he is oing to stay healthy but that doesn't seem to be the case. Tulo is a high quality SS that should continue his success.


Tulo is overrated if he's going in the 1st round. I can understand taking him in the 3rd but not 1st..
I'd rather have Kinsler though simply because he's basically the only 2b with 30/30 potential. Ian was also quiet unlucky last year in the BA department.(BABIP was very low) I expect his BA to come back up to .280 up range
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Re: Tulo vs. Kinsler

Postby MaudDib » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:04 am

J.C.Fighter wrote:
MaudDib wrote:I'll take Tulo. I would have more confidence if Kinsler could show that he is oing to stay healthy but that doesn't seem to be the case. Tulo is a high quality SS that should continue his success.


Tulo is overrated if he's going in the 1st round. I can understand taking him in the 3rd but not 1st..
I'd rather have Kinsler though simply because he's basically the only 2b with 30/30 potential. Ian was also quiet unlucky last year in the BA department.(BABIP was very low) I expect his BA to come back up to .280 up range


Well good luck getting him in the third round. He is a top 20 player and I have been seeing him around the top of the 2nd round quite a bit because of the lack of SS. Maybe he should be taken at 13 (a second round pick by the way) but that isn't what the poster is asking.
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Re: Tulo vs. Kinsler

Postby Ender » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:51 am

kab21 wrote:
False. After the top 5 (or 6 if Zobrist is eligible) I don't want anything to do with the rest of the SS's. And the only one that might be left at the 3/4 turn is jeter (also zobrist if eligible). While at the the 3/4 turn you will be able to pick from most of these Roberts/Cano/Pedroia/Phillips/Hill/Zobrist tier.

Partly because of that and partly because Kinsler is continually injured I pick Tulo.


We simply disagree then. I have a top tier that includes 2 SS and 3 2B then a second tier that has 3 SS and 6 2B. So yeah at the top end you have 5 SS vs 9 2B. However the next tier has 6 SS to 3 2B and suddenly I'm looking at 11 SS vs 12 2B. In a league with no MI slot all of these guys are going to be drafted and there are about the same number of viable guys at the position. The next tier for me has 5 2B and 6 SS and in leagues with a MI slot these guys will all go and again there are just as many viable SS in the top 36 as there are 2B.

Unless you are in a 8 team league or something you are going to find a serviceable 2B and SS, I wouldn't go out of my way to draft one of those positions over the other. Sounds to me like you prefer to have a top end 2B and SS and personally I just take the value. I'll gladly draft 3 CI in the early rounds if that is where the value is and grab a Yunel Escobar and Dan Uggla later. When I look at the lower part of the list I actually dread going with a late round 2B way more than a late round SS. I'd rather take an Cabrera, Andrus or either Escobar type than a Polanco, Kendrick or Kelly Johnson type. SS looks like it has a lot of potential value in the late rounds, 2B just looks ugly.
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Re: Tulo vs. Kinsler

Postby kab21 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:53 pm

Ender wrote:
kab21 wrote:
False. After the top 5 (or 6 if Zobrist is eligible) I don't want anything to do with the rest of the SS's. And the only one that might be left at the 3/4 turn is jeter (also zobrist if eligible). While at the the 3/4 turn you will be able to pick from most of these Roberts/Cano/Pedroia/Phillips/Hill/Zobrist tier.

Partly because of that and partly because Kinsler is continually injured I pick Tulo.


We simply disagree then. I have a top tier that includes 2 SS and 3 2B then a second tier that has 3 SS and 6 2B. So yeah at the top end you have 5 SS vs 9 2B. However the next tier has 6 SS to 3 2B and suddenly I'm looking at 11 SS vs 12 2B. In a league with no MI slot all of these guys are going to be drafted and there are about the same number of viable guys at the position. The next tier for me has 5 2B and 6 SS and in leagues with a MI slot these guys will all go and again there are just as many viable SS in the top 36 as there are 2B.

Unless you are in a 8 team league or something you are going to find a serviceable 2B and SS, I wouldn't go out of my way to draft one of those positions over the other. Sounds to me like you prefer to have a top end 2B and SS and personally I just take the value. I'll gladly draft 3 CI in the early rounds if that is where the value is and grab a Yunel Escobar and Dan Uggla later. When I look at the lower part of the list I actually dread going with a late round 2B way more than a late round SS. I'd rather take an Cabrera, Andrus or either Escobar type than a Polanco, Kendrick or Kelly Johnson type. SS looks like it has a lot of potential value in the late rounds, 2B just looks ugly.


9>>5. And I think those 2Bman getting drafted around pick 40 present a great value. I also don't think tulo presents a great value at pick 12/13. I just think he's better than Kinsler (because he's always hurt) and I think that there are more possibilities for grabbing a 2Bman in rds 4-10.

The other problem is that 3 of your late round SS's are being drafted between 112 and 145 MDP (and Alcides will be drafted well higher than 215 in comp cafe leagues). And your late round 2B are getting drafted at 154 (not interested in Kendrick there at all), 242 and 365 (although Kelly will be drafted higher in cafe leagues). So that list isn't comparable at all.
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Re: Tulo vs. Kinsler

Postby Ender » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:51 pm

9>>5


Yes but I could really care less whether or not I get one of the top 2B or top SS. Position scarcity isn't about top end options imo, it is about what you are going to be stuck with if you leave a position until late. If Utley were the only 2B worth taking in the first 15 rounds the position still wouldn't be scarce if there were a ton of viable options in round 15+.

The other problem is that 3 of your late round SS's are being drafted between 112 and 145 MDP (and Alcides will be drafted well higher than 215 in comp cafe leagues). And your late round 2B are getting drafted at 154 (not interested in Kendrick there at all), 242 and 365 (although Kelly will be drafted higher in cafe leagues). So that list isn't comparable at all.


Ok good point, looking at my sheets the comparables are actually Alcides Esocbar, Hardy, Drew and Theriot atm. I will gladly draft the SS of those bunch instead of the Kendrick's and Barmes of the world. Looking at my charts I'd say SS has more depth than 2B, 2B is more top heavy. When I look at the 11th+ 2B out there I just don't find anything exciting, I still see a lot of value in the 11th+ SS. If you desperately want top end players at your MI positions I could see going after a 2B just because of top end depth, but I don't personally think it is worth it.
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