Ws vs QSs! - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Ws vs QSs!

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:33 pm

J.C.Fighter wrote:
Bloody Sox wrote:I know this is probably the minority opinion, but I definitely prefer wins to QS.


No way !
Wins are heavily determined by the team you play on.

So are Quality Starts. I prefer the stat to Wins, all things equal, but I don't like docking relief pitchers even further down the fantasy ladder of importance. Cue the 'just add Holds' comment that is soon to follow.
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24640
(Past Year: 814)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby ensanimal » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:22 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
J.C.Fighter wrote:
Bloody Sox wrote:I know this is probably the minority opinion, but I definitely prefer wins to QS.


No way !
Wins are heavily determined by the team you play on.

So are Quality Starts. I prefer the stat to Wins, all things equal, but I don't like docking relief pitchers even further down the fantasy ladder of importance. Cue the 'just add Holds' comment that is soon to follow.


I like QS and Holds. ;-7
ensanimal
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10581
(Past Year: 120)
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Tim Horton's

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby Sticky Spice » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:23 pm

To me, fantasy baseball is about collecting players who have the best individual performances. QS is by far a superior indicator of individual performance.

Look at how randomly a W can be awarded. If you pitch nine innings of one-run ball, and your team scores zero or one, what does that have to do with your pitcher's individual performance? If the guy that comes in to relieve him gets blown up for 3 ER in 1 IP, but then in the bottom of the inning the other team give up more... now this shredded reliever gets a W?

So not only do pitchers probably deserving of a W not get it when they should, but non-deserving pitchers get a W when they shouldn't. It just doesn't make any sense and it happens enough that it doesn't reflect true individual performances. You just don't run into this with QS.

If you think about what common fantasy statistic is the most "perfect" or least affected by outside factors, it might be the strikeout. Hard to believe that original rotisserie didn't even have it!
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.” --Henry David Thoreau
Sticky Spice
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe Musketeer
Posts: 1142
(Past Year: 38)
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: At the bottom of the Ancient Cave

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:26 pm

I like W, W%, Net Saves (S-BS), and Holds. Also a good idea to add in your BB/K (or BB/9, whichever you prefer). Ratio categories offset streamers.

All stats are affected by teams. Ballpark plays a huge issue in ERA. So does opposition. QS is probably a better indicator of performance than wins. If you want to attempt to take out streamers and team element, have no stat for W or QS. Go with IP, ERA, WHIP, K, and a ratio category or 2 (think BB/9 or HR/9 or something along those lines)
buffalobillsrul2002
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1347
(Past Year: 3)
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby ayebatter » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:26 pm

Not to sure about quality starts as a category, guy pitches 6 innings & gives up 3 runs, that's a QS with a 4.5 era, and I can't see rewarding that. Wins are flawed, but QS doesn't seem to be any better.
So-Cal 25 Club _762_
ayebatter
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 11814
(Past Year: 1599)
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: I CAN SEE FOR MILES

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby Matthias » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:34 pm

Check out the threads here and here.
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
Matthias
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4860
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby Mike610NY » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:40 am

ayebatter wrote:Not to sure about quality starts as a category, guy pitches 6 innings & gives up 3 runs, that's a QS with a 4.5 era, and I can't see rewarding that. Wins are flawed, but QS doesn't seem to be any better.


agreed.

Wins can open up bargains in drafts though. Someone will always chase the win and take a pitcher with lesser skills on a better team. Opens up the potential to grab someone with a higher ceiling that will outperform in the other categories. And there's always the chance the wins pan out.

QS are ~60% occurrence for most of the top 50 pitchers anyway.
Mike610NY
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 30
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby HOOTIE » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:59 am

ayebatter wrote:Not to sure about quality starts as a category, guy pitches 6 innings & gives up 3 runs, that's a QS with a 4.5 era, and I can't see rewarding that. Wins are flawed, but QS doesn't seem to be any better.


QS stink, until they change it. 5 innings no runs, is worse then 6 innings 3 runs? Or 9 innings 4 runs?
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15106
(Past Year: 303)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby JTWood » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:27 am

HOOTIE wrote:
ayebatter wrote:Not to sure about quality starts as a category, guy pitches 6 innings & gives up 3 runs, that's a QS with a 4.5 era, and I can't see rewarding that. Wins are flawed, but QS doesn't seem to be any better.


QS stink, until they change it. 5 innings no runs, is worse then 6 innings 3 runs? Or 9 innings 4 runs?

Meh. Guys go 5 innings and give up 5 runs and get wins from time to time. My only problem with QS' math, as you pointed out, is that 6ip/3er = 4.50 ERA = QS but 8ip/4er = 4.50 ERA != QS. The second guy was just as effective and ate up more innings, yet he doesn't get the tick mark in his favor. Makes zero sense.

In my points league, we give more weighting to QS but still include wins/losses.
Image
JTWood
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Unincorporated Heaven

Re: Ws vs QSs!

Postby The Mighty Trow » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:22 am

My league was never happy with wins so we decided to tack on QS as an addition. Flawed, yes. But it was the only way we could think of to make our 3rd-5th and bench starters halfway interesting to roster. Not everyone drafted in that range is going to be a high upside fireballer, nor do all teams want to take a risk on them.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Shandler's PQS. It does not factor runs allowed but rather puts a number to how well a pitcher pitched. By this method a starter's 6 innings 3ER game results in a poor PQS score. A 7 inning 0ER game gets a much better PQS score.
Image
The Mighty Trow
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1550
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: footballisbetter.com, germani40, Ray Zorback, silverZ and 15 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Wednesday, Apr. 16
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Atlanta at Atlanta
(12:35 pm)
NY Yankees at NY Yankees
(12:35 pm)
Chi Cubs at Chi Cubs
(1:05 pm)
Detroit at Detroit
(1:10 pm)
Cleveland at Cleveland
(3:40 pm)
Washington at Miami
(7:05 pm)
indoors
Seattle at Texas
(7:05 pm)
Kansas City at Houston
(7:08 pm)
Toronto at Minnesota
(7:10 pm)
Boston at Chi White Sox
(8:05 pm)
LA Angels at LA Angels
(8:10 pm)
Oakland at Oakland
(8:10 pm)
San Diego at San Diego
(8:10 pm)
Colorado at Colorado
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at San Francisco
(10:10 pm)
LA Dodgers at LA Dodgers
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact