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Valverde signs with Tigers

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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby Dan Lambskin » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:26 pm

terrible signing...you dont make that deal unless you think you are a legit closer away from a World Series (and IMO they arent close). the money i could really care less about but giving up the pick is silly, not to mention you're halting the development of your young bullpen arms...throw them out there and find out who's got what it takes to close
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby AussieDodger » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:33 pm

Wow, this makes no sense.
After making a pretty decent trade DD goes and flushes that money saved down the toilet? :-S

By the way, in fangraphs dollars Valverde has NEVER been worth $7mil in one year, not even once (highest = $5.6mil).

Free agent contracts seem to be DD's achilles' heel. :-P
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby AquaMan2342 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:04 pm

It's not the best deal, but better to have Valverde at 7 than someone like Gregg at anything.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby B-Chad » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:12 pm

Taken in context, I'd say this was a top 3 worst free agent signing this off-season. I'll start by saying I have no problem with the Tigers willingness to move Granderson and Edwin Jackson as I thought the haul was pretty good (and I believe they sold high on E-Jax). That said, by making that move, I believe they took a step back (losing a starting CF that is undoubtedly more valuable in the now then Austin Jackson, while not off-setting it enough with the upgrade from E-Jax to Scherzer/Coke/Schlereth) for this season. This means a non-playoff team from a year ago, who has actually taken a step backwards for this coming season by dealing Granderson just signed a closer... for what reason? Did they do it so that they could win more games and STILL not make the playoffs? Obviously they lost a tie breaker, but looking at the Twins and Tigers off-seasons I see the Twins as having gotten better, and the Tigers worse, so this signing makes little sense to me. I also think by signing him for two years they obviously block one of their young flame throwers from being the future for at least that time (which makes little sense to me, since this season would have been a perfect time to let Zumaya, Perry and Schlereth work the 9th and get comfortable closing).

Toss in that they lose a draft pick, and the deal is a real head scratcher (and that's not even taking into account the financial aspect). If I were a Tigers fan I'd be a bit upset/disappointed. While it's nice to have a rock solid closer at the back of the bullpen (and Valverde is just that), it seems like saving that money and pumping it into draft picks (perhaps drafting some guys and paying above slot) would be a more ample use of their dollars.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby AussieDodger » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:27 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:It's not the best deal, but better to have Valverde at 7 than someone like Gregg at anything.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html

Kiko Calero (35) - Type B, not offered arb
Octavio Dotel (36) - Type A, not offered arb
John Smoltz (43)
Joaquin Benoit (32)
Chad Bradford (35)
Duaner Sanchez (30)


If you wanted a short-term closer these guys would be way, way, way cheaper then Valverde, and not completely horrible. :-?
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby MashinSpuds » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:54 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
Kiko Calero (35) - Type B, not offered arb
Octavio Dotel (36) - Type A, not offered arb
John Smoltz (43)
Joaquin Benoit (32)
Chad Bradford (35)
Duaner Sanchez (30)


If you wanted a short-term closer these guys would be way, way, way cheaper then Valverde, and not completely horrible. :-?

If those guys are being offered, they might as well have stuck with Rodney. I think the Valverde signing is the management saying they want a little more predictability in winning games. Those 6 guys, as well as Rodney, ain't predictable. But I see what you're saying ... I think a better example of cheap and somewhat steady is David Weathers based on his tenure with the Reds.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby moochman » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:34 am

AquaMan2342 wrote:
DaSh 1s wrote:How insanely dumb, I don't understand the Tigers. First they have a fire sale


Explain how trading Granderson and Jackson and not over-paying Lyon, Polanco or Rodney is having a firesale?

Edit: look at the return they got for Grandy/Jackson.....you're telling me you aren't taking that?


Fire sale is probably the wrong name, but it is silly to sign a closer for that kind of money when you could only hope the young players you are replacing Granderson and Polanco with will be sound major leaguers by the time Valverde's deal is done. In the meantime you have two contrasting philosphies the DD is trying to meld into a team. I like the way he has built a young, hard-throwing pitching staff and his thought process of having Zumaya, Schlereth, Coke, and Perry in the pen to shorten games. That's great strategy for a team that is going to have problems scoring runs.
Sadly, DD's contrasting philosply of fielding a team in a big ball park that cannot field is going to ruin many a well pitched game. They will feature perhaps the worst defensive in all of baseball and the worse second baseman as well. That is not how you consistantly win ballgames.
So given that the team is not nearly championship ready, it makes little sense to sign Valverde. Develop what you have. And didn't DD say last year that they had 10 arms in the minors that would be ready by 2010 or 11? Valverde almost seems like lip-service to a fan base disappointed with the frugal approach the Tigers were taking heading into the season.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby DaSh 1s » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:03 am

AquaMan2342 wrote:Edit: look at the return they got for Grandy/Jackson.....you're telling me you aren't taking that?


I may be biased, but I particularly don't think Austin Jackson is good. And this has been from following him throughout the Y Organization. And I think the Yankees sold high on Austin. If the Tigers, put him in the Majors to start the season, I think he will be overly exposed with his plate discipline.

Coke simply is not good, you will learn that yourself over time. Love Mad Max, tho.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby OneLoveBoomer » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:52 am

Whatever the case, fantasy wise this makes Valverde a nice closer option.
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Re: Valverde signs with Tigers

Postby MotorCityKitties » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:32 pm

ScarletP wrote:I don't know if Dombrowski actually said anything specific after the Granderson trade, but it was implied, at least by the media, that because of the economy the Tigers would be cutting payroll and that the Granderson trade was a part of that cutting of payroll. To spend that money a month later doesn't make sense to me. If I claim that I can't afford my mortgage anymore because of the economy and are therefore forced to sell my house it would be hard to justify going out and buying another house with the exact same mortgage.


I heard the press conference and Dombrowski hinted at economics being part of the reason for the trade. He repeatedly mentioned something like "other factors" being a reason. This team was lucky to be one win away from the playoffs, so I had no problem with the trade. Look towards 2011 and build the farm through draft picks (drafting being one of Dombrowski's strengths). One of his weaknesses is handing out bad contracts to non-elite players and he did it again. Valverde is a nice piece, but it makes no sense when considering the loss of a pick, their mediocrity and the rest of the offseason.
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