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Jeter and AROD

Postby The Zot » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:15 pm

Ok all you Yankee haters, even you have to admit that the Yankees have a tremendous duo in Arod and Jeter, but the bigger question is...how will Arod handle the NYC pressure, and will Jeter respond to his old self on offense? Will this turn into gold for the Yankees or will Jeter implode, or will Arod melt down and lose it......I know what Red Sox fan is rooting for....
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Postby Melo255 » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:52 pm

A-rod is awesome, no doubt about that. Jeter on the other hand is the single most overrated player in history. The Yankees now have a great 3rd baseman and a mediocre shortstop, thats all.
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Postby MikeeDee » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:59 pm

Melo255 wrote:A-rod is awesome, no doubt about that. Jeter on the other hand is the single most overrated player in history. The Yankees now have a great 3rd baseman and a mediocre shortstop, thats all.


Mediocre defensively that is. Offensively Jeter is and will be a force to be reckoned with.
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Postby frog99 » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:09 pm

MikeeDee wrote:
Melo255 wrote:A-rod is awesome, no doubt about that. Jeter on the other hand is the single most overrated player in history. The Yankees now have a great 3rd baseman and a mediocre shortstop, thats all.


Mediocre defensively that is. Offensively Jeter is and will be a force to be reckoned with.


if you call a 300 avg, 20 steals, and 15 homers, and 75 rbis a force to reckonded with, then yes. :-?


Im not saying it will, but this could hurt the yankees chemistry, (espcecialy after all that stuff arod said about Jeter not to long ago)
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Postby Melo255 » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:18 pm

A force to be reckoned with?
Jeters career numbers:
Yr-HR-RBI
96-10-78
97-10-70
98-19-84
99-24-102
00-15-73
01-21-73
02-18-75
03-10-43
WOW, staggering aren't they? Definitely hall of fame slugger material. With these incredibly gifted batting stats at this rate he will get 500 home runs when he's...what...180 years old???
I give him respect for his fairly high 317 career BA and decent steals but to call a guy whos had more than 19 home runs in a season twice and more than 78 rbis twice-only one year above 84 a force to be reckoned with? Your crazy man. He gets a nice amount of runs but hell if you put Torre in front of the meat of the Yankees order he'll get 100+runs. He is entirely a product of playing for the Yankees. Even his BA is helped because of the protection behind him. Put him on any other team and you almost never talk about him. However put Nomar or Tejada on the Devil Rays and you still have an elite SS. A force to be reckoned with? Please
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:38 pm

Melo255 wrote:A force to be reckoned with? What new form of crack are you on?
Jeters career numbers:
Yr-HR-RBI
96-10-78
97-10-70
98-19-84
99-24-102
00-15-73
01-21-73
02-18-75
03-10-43
WOW, staggering aren't they? Definitely hall of fame slugger material. With these incredibly gifted batting stats at this rate he will get 500 home runs when he's...what...180 years old???
I give him respect for his fairly high 317 career BA and decent steals but to call a guy whos had more than 19 home runs in a season twice and more than 78 rbis twice-only one year above 84 a force to be reckoned with? Your crazy man. He gets a nice amount of runs but hell if you put Torre in front of the meat of the Yankees order he'll get 100+runs. He is entirely a product of playing for the Yankees. Even his BA is helped because of the protection behind him. Put him on any other team and you almost never talk about him. However put Nomar or Tejada on the Devil Rays and you still have an elite SS. A force to be reckoned with? Please


I agree with you about Jeter. Yankee fans will never admit it, but he's extremely over-rated, and possibly the worst waste of money since........well, the begining of time. Is the worst defensive SS in baseball worth $180M?? He's going to have to have more than just a decent BA if he's going to earn that kinda money. He's basically Alex Cintron with better lineup protection. And I'm not even exaggerating.
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Postby stumpak » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:49 pm

He may be sub-par defensively and completely overpaid, but to say that Jeter isn't one of the best offensive shortstops of the modern era is ridiculous--the only SS with a higher BA in the post-war era is Garciaparra. You want to talk about overrated SSs, how about Ripken? He had only few really good power years, never provided the steals and leadership that Jeter does, and had only a few seasons in which he was in Jeter territory batting average-wise. I think his consecutive game streak is one of the most overrated accomplishments ever, but last season aside, Jeter hasn't missed a lot of games either. Jeter may be overrated and shouldn't be paid like he is Ty Cobb, but he still pretty damn good.

Besides ARod and Garciaparra, can you guys name any shortstops who have consistently been better offensively than Jeter without havin go back to Honus Wagner?
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:11 pm

OMG, did you just diss Ripken?

I'm sorry if hitting 25+ HRs a year isn't good enough by YOUR standards, but back in the 80's, you only needed about 40 to win the homerun title. Only like 25 players were able to hit 30+ homers a year.

If Ripken was in his prime today, he'd be hitting 35-40 homeruns a year easy.
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Postby Melo255 » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:47 pm

First of all Ripken won 2 MVP awards and 2 Gold Gloves.
12 Years he had more than 21 Home Runs. Hugely important is that he played for 20 years. 20 Friggin years! Lets see how Ripken did over the first 8 years of his career VS Jeter's 1st 8 as I already wrote earlier:
Jeter Ripken
Yr-HR-RBI Yr-HR-RBI
96-10-78 82-28-93
97-10-70 83-27-102
98-19-84 84-27-86
99-24-102 85-26-110
00-15-73 86-25-81
01-21-73 87-27-98
02-18-75 88-23-81
03-10-43 89-21-93
Now unless I'm mistaken Ripken has Jeter beat every single time. And as Bleach already said the years when Ripken was posting vastly superior numbers to Jeters was also devoid of freakishly huge men hitting 66, 70 and 73 home runs a year. To prove this point the top 5 in home runs in each of those years listed above:
Jeters time Ripkens time
96-52,50,49,48,47 82-39,39.37,37,36
97-58,56,49,44,43 83-40,39,36,36,35
98-70,66,56,50,49 84-43,36,36,35,33
99-65,63,48,47,45 85-40,37,37,36,35
00-50,49,47,47,44 86-40,37,35,34,33
01-73,64,57,52,49 87-49,49,47,44,39
02-57,52,49,46,43 88-42,39,34,32,30
03-47,47,45,45,43 89-47,36,36,35,34
Now to explain this if your stubborn there were a TOTAL of 10 40+ home run seasons in 8 years in Ripkens time while EVERY SINGLE top 5 HR hitter in Jeters time had at least 43 HR's including 11 50 HR, 4 60HR and 2 70 Hr seasons. To finish Jeters era obviously is just stacked with HR totals while Ripkens era is full of totals we see from 2nd tier power sluggers today and yet Ripken still outperformed Jeter in every year. And Ripkens defense just obliterates Jeter-that's not even remotely close.
Just an added bonus in 1991 Ripken had 34 HR and 114 RBI's. He finished tied for 4th in all of baseball with those 34 HR's. Now if you ever expect Jeter to come close to those numbers your crazy.
Now I'm tired and gonna grab a beer.
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:57 pm

Seems like you put a lot of work into that, but it doesn't really say much except Ripken was a better power hitter. I still think he's much better than Jeter, but if you did the same split with R and BA, I'm pretty sure Jeter would win every year. And that doesn't make him better. His BA and R are a product of the lineup he was in. BA not so much, but still inflated due to the amount of good pitches he gets to see with a lineup of HOF's and All-Stars behind him.

Defensively it's no contest, Ripken was much better. And Jeter is still the most over-paid and over-rated player in sports.
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