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Re: Hall of Fame 2010

Postby DaSh 1s » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:48 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
DaSh 1s wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:No, it's not. He was +214 when compared to all other shortstops. That's before the position adjustment. I mean yeah, he got more chances playing short than he would have playing right, so from that standpoint you're correct, but nowhere in those earlier numbers have I quantified the value of him playing the most valuable position on the field.


Right, but the present WAR stat includes positional adjustments, which presents CF Gutierrez is more valuable to a team than a Youk, Teix, Miggy or any other 1B slugger. Its ridiculous, and over rates defense.


The historical WAR stat includes positional adjustments as well. It would be ridiculous not to. Otherwise, you're making two claims that have no basis in reality. The first is that it's equally easy to find the same relative player at every position. That's clearly not the case. The second would be that if you were to take an elite fielding first baseman, he could move to shortstop and be an equally elite fielder. Of course that's also ridiculous.

Surely you're not claiming that Teixeira could move to center and be an average fielder there?


No obviously a 1B can't be a above average defenders, but above average defenders have no business being rated higher than >140 OPS+ 1B ... just my opinion and why I can't force myself to take WAR seriously.
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: Hall of Fame 2010

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:30 pm

DaSh 1s wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
DaSh 1s wrote:
Right, but the present WAR stat includes positional adjustments, which presents CF Gutierrez is more valuable to a team than a Youk, Teix, Miggy or any other 1B slugger. Its ridiculous, and over rates defense.


The historical WAR stat includes positional adjustments as well. It would be ridiculous not to. Otherwise, you're making two claims that have no basis in reality. The first is that it's equally easy to find the same relative player at every position. That's clearly not the case. The second would be that if you were to take an elite fielding first baseman, he could move to shortstop and be an equally elite fielder. Of course that's also ridiculous.

Surely you're not claiming that Teixeira could move to center and be an average fielder there?


No obviously a 1B can't be a above average defenders, but above average defenders have no business being rated higher than >140 OPS+ 1B ... just my opinion and why I can't force myself to take WAR seriously.

Defenders that are rated higher than those guys are clearly not merely "above average", they're "insanely good". There's a reason that not every Tom, Dick, and Jeter is ranked higher than guys like MCab and Fielder. Out of the top 35 in WAR, only two of them (2) have more defensive runs saved than batting runs created: Gutierrez and Nyjer Morgan.
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