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Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby mweir145 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:11 am

AussieDodger wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:A moral victory is not the same as an actual victory. :-?

Which is better?


The majority of the time (like 95%), actual victory.
I don't believe there is a "moral victory" column in any sports standings.

Bogarting all the SPs so that your opponent can't use them = intelligent.

Chivalry is dead, my friend. ;-D

I agree. It's exactly why I wouldn't be pissed if somebody did that to me.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby DaShiz23 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:07 am

Isn't this like trading with a non-contending team to pick up a few points in a cat, but also giving that non-contending team parts that would take points away from the team you are battling against? Personally, I woulda gone for the W.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby jackie hayes » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:30 am

West wrote:I don't really agree with these rules. Just consider a scenario: About 3 weeks ago, the second place guy in one of my leagues had Lidge, and I made a speculative pick-up of Madson a few days before Lidge lost his job. I already had 5 closers and had no intention of really using Madson unless he was playing on a day that my other closers didn't have a game. I merely picked him up to take the saves away from the competition, as we were in a tight battle for saves, and the second place manager, owning Lidge, would be the most likely person to add Madson. So I was making a roster move specifically to take potential stats away from the second place manager, with no real intention of using Madson, unless one of my closers lost his job or there was an open spot for some reason. Should that be against the rules? I don't think so, but maybe some people feel different.

It's just my opinion, but I feel like unless managers are acting collusive or dumping, people should be able to make whatever free agent and waiver claims they want. A more blatant example of unfair play would be to add and then drop all the Oct. 4 probable starters one at a time so they are all on waivers the last day of the season and no one can load up on them to max out on their innings cap. I don't agree with this one, which I think is one of the reasons some league put a cap on moves that you can make.


But the Madson move wasn't done "solely" to hamper his play, only "mostly". If you'll use Madson if one of your closers loses his job, or when your other closers have an off-day, it's not at all against the rules. I'll pick up lots of guys (at the end of year, at least) who I only might use. I had 7 closers (with only 5 spots) in one league about a month ago, and about 7 or 8 outfielders in one league yesterday. And going against a streamer late this week, I was well ahead on saves, so I dumped some closers and loaded up on decent Saturday/Sunday stream starters. It's true that I was partially preventing him from grabbing good starters, and it's true that I never used any of them -- BUT, if he had a couple miracle days in a row and pushed his era below mine, I would have used them. There's nothing wrong with picking up just-in-case players. It's only if you are absolutely certain you won't use them that it becomes a problem with the rules.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby BALCO All-Stars » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:40 pm

Awesome topic, and I don't see the problem with it. The object is to win the game and stopping the other owner from gaining points helps win. Some people feel it's cheap to load up on starters on the day you'll hit your max IP so you'll accrue 20, 30, maybe 40 more innings then you should, but the system allows it and it's the smart play IMO. Same thing in this situation...let the other owner make his pickups earlier if he wants those starting pitchers.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby flloyd » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:00 pm

Madison wrote:
flloyd wrote:
Madison wrote:
Are you meaning for H2H leagues? Because I know in roto at CBS, that extra game in '07 didn't count for anything, even though technically it should have counted since it was a regular season game and not an "extra" game or anything.


Nope, Roto league. And our CBS league definitely counted those stats, it caused a big ruckus in our league. The stats were counted because that is what CBS defaulted to.


Interesting. I wonder what the difference maker was since I know for fact my leagues didn't count that game, and you say yours did. We had a message on the league's home page that the game would count, so a bunch of people picked up players, and then the announcement got changed to say it wasn't going to count later the same evening (day before the game). Resulted in tons of people throwing fits because it wasn't a playoff game or anything, it was a regular season game that was being made up, so it should have counted, but didn't. So I wonder why it counted in some leagues but not in others. :-?


All I can think is that you Commish changed the setting in your league (maybe it would have negatively affected him?). In fact here's the message that our league now gets (Note that this is from CBS and not out Commish):

"Tiebreak Game - The Twins and Tigers will be playing a game on Tuesday October 6th to decide who will go to the MLB playoffs. This game will count in our leagues as a regular season game for all scoring types.
Daily leagues will be able to set a lineup for this game, while Weekly leagues will use the same lineup from the final scoring period."

Fortunately our league's top four are so separated that it doesn't matter if it counts or not so no one cares.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby Madison » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:56 pm

flloyd wrote:
Madison wrote:Interesting. I wonder what the difference maker was since I know for fact my leagues didn't count that game, and you say yours did. We had a message on the league's home page that the game would count, so a bunch of people picked up players, and then the announcement got changed to say it wasn't going to count later the same evening (day before the game). Resulted in tons of people throwing fits because it wasn't a playoff game or anything, it was a regular season game that was being made up, so it should have counted, but didn't. So I wonder why it counted in some leagues but not in others. :-?


All I can think is that you Commish changed the setting in your league (maybe it would have negatively affected him?). In fact here's the message that our league now gets (Note that this is from CBS and not out Commish):

"Tiebreak Game - The Twins and Tigers will be playing a game on Tuesday October 6th to decide who will go to the MLB playoffs. This game will count in our leagues as a regular season game for all scoring types.
Daily leagues will be able to set a lineup for this game, while Weekly leagues will use the same lineup from the final scoring period."

Fortunately our league's top four are so separated that it doesn't matter if it counts or not so no one cares.


No clue, but I can now verify CBS isn't consistant with their rulings. From one of the other threads talking about it:

Dan Lambskin wrote:leave it to CBS to be inconsistent

Dan Lambskins CBS Public Platinum 5x5 League wrote:Tiebreak Game
The Twins and Tigers will be playing a game on Tuesday October 6th to decide who will go to the MLB playoffs. This game will not count in our leagues, as a play in game is not part of the regular season defined by our rules.
"The MLB season runs 26 weeks from 4/5/2009 through 10/4/2009. In the event that there are any regular season tie-breaker playoff games, the statistics accumulated in such games will NOT be counted towards your overall score."


Dan Lambskins CBS Public Platinum 5x5 League wrote:Tiebreak Game
The Twins and Tigers will be playing a game on Tuesday October 6th to decide who will go to the MLB playoffs. This game will count in our leagues as a regular season game for all scoring types.
Daily leagues will be able to set a lineup for this game, while Weekly leagues will use the same lineup from the final scoring period.


i'm fine with it since i've already won the 1st league and am guaranteed money in the 2nd, although it could drop me from a tie for 2nd to 3rd (although 1st is still a slim posibility)


http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=397676&start=10

So it seems it could or it couldn't. Ick. :-*
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby ayebatter » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:45 pm

From what I recall, in a CBS Commissioner league, the commish can choose to have or not have any extra playin games count when he sets up the league, he can also change anything he wants to at any time regardless of what he set up in the beginning.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby swyck » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:24 pm

AussieDodger wrote:Bogarting all the SPs so that your opponent can't use them = intelligent.

No. I think its been established that it's cheating, at least in Yahoo leagues.
Chivalry is dead, my friend. ;-D

No, it isn't. Don't try to justify your actions with "everybody does it" because that wouldn't be true.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby AquaMan2342 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:30 pm

I know at the beginning of a two week championship series, I usually extend an offer to the other team to play with the existing rosters straight up. Usually they accept, but when they don't I will basically do anything to win.
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Re: Hoarding: A Question of Ethics

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:39 pm

swyck wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:Bogarting all the SPs so that your opponent can't use them = intelligent.

No. I think its been established that it's cheating, at least in Yahoo leagues.
Chivalry is dead, my friend. ;-D

No, it isn't. Don't try to justify your actions with "everybody does it" because that wouldn't be true.


What the? :-S

swyck wrote:No. I think its been established that it's cheating, at least in Yahoo leagues.

What rule does it break, and why I am not blocked from doing it?

swyck wrote:Don't try to justify your actions with "everybody does it"

I never said that.
Some people are "do what it takes to win" people (me), and other people aren't (wussies). ;-7
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