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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby AdvRider » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:57 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
AdvRider wrote:
KCollins1304 wrote: IMO it is your league's fault for not reviewing its setting and turning off that feature before the season started. Now if you want to suggest to Yahoo to add a feature where a commissioner


Dude, this is about public Yahoo roto leagues. Yahoo IS the commissioner, and is not doing a very good job at, um, commissionering when it's forcing managers to carry worthless if studly SPs who have made their last start while their owners lose out on opportunities to drop said SPs for FA help in the final days.

You are in the 0.1% of Yahoo Public Leagues where this is actually an issue. Like I said before, it's sour grapes. Lest I'm mistaken, public leagues have no move limits, no IP limits, and no other form of modifications, yet you really expect this. It's uncanny. This is why they're Public Leagues... because they're for casual players who aren't serious about the game. People who are learning, or want to just go along for the ride. If you take the game seriously by any semblance of the word, you create a custom league. Period.


My friend, Yahoo public roto leagues do have limits on max IP (1250) and games played for batters and a trade veto clause and other features intended to promote fair play. Though there is no limit on moves.

I'm not sure how you figure that this is an issue in just 0.1% of Yahoo public leagues? Yahoo has thousands of public i.e. non-custom leagues and as far as I can tell default settings are in place for each one. The only way to bypass the Yahoo default settings is to set up a custom league, with a commissioner.

And ageed, custom leagues are preferable for the competitive, which I am. But I'll play a public league for the heck of it, 'cuz I love fantasy baseball ... I signed up for this particular league right before the season began, the last team I created. It turned it out to be more competitive that a lot of custom leagues!

And so I find myself a point or two out of 1st -- saddled with Halladay Lincecum and Carpenter because the "commissioner" (Yahoo) has dropped the ball and is not adjusting its Can't Cut List as any diligent & sensible person would do, and contrary to its own statements, to wit, "the Yahoo league office reviews the Can't Cut List on a daily basis and adjusts for performance and/or injury factors." :-[

According to Yahoo, the purpose of the CCL is to "prevent managers from negatively impacting fair play by dumping quality players into the available player pool." Well, if a studly SP has made his final start, dumping him to the WW isn't going to negatively impact fair play, is it?

I can't figure why you're blaming me for "sour grapes." Yahoo says it reviews the CCL daily and adjusts accordingly, it clearly is not doing so. Period. :-t
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:12 pm

AdvRider wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
AdvRider wrote:
Dude, this is about public Yahoo roto leagues. Yahoo IS the commissioner, and is not doing a very good job at, um, commissionering when it's forcing managers to carry worthless if studly SPs who have made their last start while their owners lose out on opportunities to drop said SPs for FA help in the final days.

You are in the 0.1% of Yahoo Public Leagues where this is actually an issue. Like I said before, it's sour grapes. Lest I'm mistaken, public leagues have no move limits, no IP limits, and no other form of modifications, yet you really expect this. It's uncanny. This is why they're Public Leagues... because they're for casual players who aren't serious about the game. People who are learning, or want to just go along for the ride. If you take the game seriously by any semblance of the word, you create a custom league. Period.


My friend, Yahoo public roto leagues do have limits on max IP (1250) and games played for batters and a trade veto clause and other features intended to promote fair play. Though there is no limit on moves.

It's been a long time. Thank you for the clarification.

AdvRider wrote:I'm not sure how you figure that this is an issue in just 0.1% of Yahoo public leagues? Yahoo has thousands of public i.e. non-custom leagues and as far as I can tell default settings are in place for each one. The only way to bypass the Yahoo default settings is to set up a custom league, with a commissioner.

Because 99.9% of Public League participants either don't know or care enough to use the strategy you're discussing.

AdvRider wrote:And ageed, custom leagues are preferable for the competitive, which I am. But I'll play a public league for the heck of it, 'cuz I love fantasy baseball ... I signed up for this particular league right before the season began, the last team I created. It turned it out to be more competitive that a lot of custom leagues!

I wasn't trying to question your FB prowess. Just want to make sure it didn't come off that way.

AdvRider wrote:And so I find myself a point or two out of 1st -- saddled with Halladay Lincecum and Carpenter because the "commissioner" (Yahoo) has dropped the ball and is not adjusting its Can't Cut List as any diligent & sensible person would do, and contrary to its own statements, to wit, "the Yahoo league office reviews the Can't Cut List on a daily basis and adjusts for performance and/or injury factors." :-[

According to Yahoo, the purpose of the CCL is to "prevent managers from negatively impacting fair play by dumping quality players into the available player pool." Well, if a studly SP has made his final start, dumping him to the WW isn't going to negatively impact fair play, is it?

I can't figure why you're blaming me for "sour grapes." Yahoo says it reviews the CCL daily and adjusts accordingly, it clearly is not doing so. Period. :-t

At the end of the day, I believe you're just asking too much. The CCL does get updated -- I remember back when Eric Chavez was on the CCL, and then he just wasn't anymore (no idea why that particular one sticks with me). However, neither of the criteria that Y! lists (performance and/or injury factors) have occurred with either Lincecum or Carpenter, and thus, their CCL status hasn't changed. Just because they've presumably made their last starts of the season, as I said earlier, doesn't mean they've thrown their last regular season pitch, as guys have certainly thrown relief in final season games. So, yeah, they aren't removed from the CCL. Where we disagree here is in the belief that this is a flaw and/or mistake by Y!. I'm saying it's not. It's preventing you from streaming the last five days of the season, but maybe that's not the worst thing. I expect a lot of things from a fantasy baseball provider, even a free one, and heck, even in a Public League with default settings -- but this is something I would never, in a million years, expect to be taken care of for me.
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby da bears » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:36 pm

Why didn't you just manage your innings pitched better during the season? You knew the rules the whole season.
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby AdvRider » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:09 am

bigh0rt wrote:At the end of the day, I believe you're just asking too much. The CCL does get updated -- I remember back when Eric Chavez was on the CCL, and then he just wasn't anymore (no idea why that particular one sticks with me). However, neither of the criteria that Y! lists (performance and/or injury factors) have occurred with either Lincecum or Carpenter, and thus, their CCL status hasn't changed. Just because they've presumably made their last starts of the season, as I said earlier, doesn't mean they've thrown their last regular season pitch, as guys have certainly thrown relief in final season games. So, yeah, they aren't removed from the CCL. Where we disagree here is in the belief that this is a flaw and/or mistake by Y!. I'm saying it's not. It's preventing you from streaming the last five days of the season, but maybe that's not the worst thing. I expect a lot of things from a fantasy baseball provider, even a free one, and heck, even in a Public League with default settings -- but this is something I would never, in a million years, expect to be taken care of for me.


Well then, we'll have to agree to disagree. And sigh, it's Friday morning and the SPs in question remain undroppable. I'm not the only one with this issue, BTW ... I've seen similar complaints in the comments section of recent Yahoo Closing Time columns.

And the possibility that an SP pitches in relief in a non-critical game, I'm sorry, but that's just silly. The likehihood of a Villanueva or Badenhop snagging 4 Ks in relief is orders of magnitude greater than Roy Halladay doing it ... :-?

IMHO you are splitting hairs on whether an SP having made his last start qualifies as a "performance/injury factor" that would justify removal from the CCL. That's a letter of the law/spirit of the law thing.

You seem to suggest that Yahoo made a deliberate and considered judgment that Halladay Lincecum et al should remain on the CCL in the spirit of fair play.

Yeah right! It's neglect plain and simple, prolly cuz the Yahoos are too busy chopping liver over the service provider stat delivery issue! :-B
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby Madison » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:15 pm

AdvRider wrote:
Madison wrote:Oh I agree about the whining and griping, like here as an example. :-/


LOL! Dude, in my post you reference on “Yahoo undroppable players,” I outline Yahoo’s neglect in adjusting its list of undroppable SPs at in the all-important final week of the long roto season.

Which has led to my current dilemma – Halladay made his final start of the season Wednesday, and yet remains UNDROPPABLE on Thursday and a millstone on my roster, hindering my ability to stream and perhaps capture a few critical points in a bid for 1st place. :-S :-C

Ditto Lincecum Carpenter (I have both) Haren Greinke and Hernandez – all undroppable SPs. Lincecum and Carpenter make their final starts tonite Thursday and should be droppable NOW for streaming help.

These Yahoo undroppables affect custom leagues using default settings and many many thousands of public leagues. Yahoo’s neglect of this critical detail is affecting the fortunes of untold numbers of managers.

And you call that “whining,” really? :-?


Yes, I call it whining.

It isn't Yahoo's fault that you didn't manage your innings better, and that's what all this whining boils down to: A failure on your part to manage your innings to reach the max. There's a handy-dandy little counter at the bottom that shows how many innings you've pitched, how many you've got left, and even your pace (red if negative, green if positive). Not to mention the fact that the CCL isn't a new feature or anything.

So yeah, I call it whining. What's next, that you expect them to set your optimal lineup each day? :-b
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby AdvRider » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:02 pm

Madison wrote:
AdvRider wrote:
Madison wrote:Oh I agree about the whining and griping, like here as an example. :-/


LOL! Dude, in my post you reference on “Yahoo undroppable players,” I outline Yahoo’s neglect in adjusting its list of undroppable SPs at in the all-important final week of the long roto season.

Which has led to my current dilemma – Halladay made his final start of the season Wednesday, and yet remains UNDROPPABLE on Thursday and a millstone on my roster, hindering my ability to stream and perhaps capture a few critical points in a bid for 1st place. :-S :-C

Ditto Lincecum Carpenter (I have both) Haren Greinke and Hernandez – all undroppable SPs. Lincecum and Carpenter make their final starts tonite Thursday and should be droppable NOW for streaming help.

These Yahoo undroppables affect custom leagues using default settings and many many thousands of public leagues. Yahoo’s neglect of this critical detail is affecting the fortunes of untold numbers of managers.

And you call that “whining,” really? :-?


Yes, I call it whining.

It isn't Yahoo's fault that you didn't manage your innings better, and that's what all this whining boils down to: A failure on your part to manage your innings to reach the max. There's a handy-dandy little counter at the bottom that shows how many innings you've pitched, how many you've got left, and even your pace (red if negative, green if positive). Not to mention the fact that the CCL isn't a new feature or anything.

So yeah, I call it whining. What's next, that you expect them to set your optimal lineup each day? :-b


WTF? 8-o 8-o Bub, if you are going to attack me and my fantasy baseball competence, read the posts and get your facts straight.

This has nothing to do with my management of IP. That’s not a factor; I have not even mentioned it … though “da bears,” I have no idea why.

FWIW, I managed IP on this team just fine, thank you … it’s Friday, depending on RP appearances, I'll have 10 to 12 IP left for Saturday and Sunday and I'll be in position on Sunday to snag extra Ks via the loophole that enables you to exceed the max IP throughout the day and still accumulate stats.

I would have dropped Halladay Lincecum and Carpenter upon their last start for backup batting help mostly, maybe an SP/RP ... details irrelevant. The particularities of this team don’t really matter.

The bigger point is Yahoo dropped the ball and left thousands of roto managers hamstrung with useless pitchers for a few critical days. :-t

Madison wrote:Not to mention the fact that the CCL is not a new feature or anything.


I've played with the CCL in the past, and I'm 99.9% sure it has always been sensibly updated in the final week, with SPs released a day prior to final start.

But guess what!

Finally Yahoo finally recognized & addressed the problem and sometime Friday afternoon eliminated from the CCL Halladay Greinke Haren Lincecum Carpenter et al. Better late than never.

Thanks for your support.
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby Madison » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:00 am

AdvRider wrote:WTF? 8-o 8-o Bub, if you are going to attack me and my fantasy baseball competence, read the posts and get your facts straight.


I didn't attack anyone, I answered your question. Did we turn into little school girls or something? :-S

You said:

AdvRider wrote:Halladay made his final start of the season Wednesday, and yet remains UNDROPPABLE on Thursday and a millstone on my roster, hindering my ability to stream


If you need to "stream", then you managed your innings poorly.

Now you say:

AdvRider wrote:FWIW, I managed IP on this team just fine, thank you … it’s Friday, depending on RP appearances, I'll have 10 to 12 IP left for Saturday and Sunday and I'll be in position on Sunday to snag extra Ks via the loophole that enables you to exceed the max IP throughout the day and still accumulate stats.


Which means you don't need to stream so you're whining just to whine, which is what I said in my original post about it.

Either way, I don't really care which of the two stories is the truth. I didn't respond to anything you didn't say, so let's grow up just a touch, 'K?

Oh, and winning via a loophole isn't winning, but that's a different conversation for a different day, and not one I'd expect you to understand or agree with (based on your poor overreaction to this topic).
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby baseball77 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:41 am

He doesn't want to stream pitchers, he wants to pick up bats and drop those pitchers.

And Yahoo actually says that innings pitched thing is not a loophole.
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby Madison » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:53 am

baseball77 wrote:He doesn't want to stream pitchers, he wants to pick up bats and drop those pitchers.

And Yahoo actually says that innings pitched thing is not a loophole.


Doesn't Yahoo have a max games played at each position in public leagues? I thought they did, but could be wrong. If they do indeed have that in place, then we're back to bad roster management, which of course is not Yahoo's responsibility. If they don't have a max games option, then it goes back to the ethics debate again, where winning via streaming isn't winning anything at all.

And sure, going beyond the limits is a loophole. In a perfect world, all teams would hit 1250 innings on the dot. Due to that being basically impossible, Yahoo allows for all innings to count for the day that someone hits their limit, which allows teams to run 30+ innings over the limit, which is certainly not what that stipulation is for, and hence, is a loophole. If they wanted to operate the game in a more ethical manner and eliminate the loophole, they'd cap the limit and have a penalty for going over. Just as an example, the limit is 1250, but impose something that if someone hits 1260 innings the day they go over, none of the pitching stats for that day count. That would do the trick, or something similar.

Of course though, Yahoo is in the business to make money, just like all websites are in business to make money. The thousands of clicks by people adding/dropping for the last day when they will go over the innings pitched limit causes millions of page views, resulting in a nice chunk of money for them. I can't blame them at all for wanting to cash in, and I won't blame them since it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint, but they are serving their own best interest by allowing the loophole, they are not serving the best interest of fantasy sports ethics by allowing the loophole to exist.

EDIT TO ADD:

Also, don't Yahoo public leagues still have a bench? If so, then I'm even more confused as to why the CCL is such and issue and causing so much whining. :-?
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Re: Yahoo Chopped Liver

Postby AdvRider » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:39 pm

Madison wrote:
AdvRider wrote:WTF? 8-o 8-o Bub, if you are going to attack me and my fantasy baseball competence, read the posts and get your facts straight.


I didn't attack anyone, I answered your question. Did we turn into little school girls or something? :-S

You said:

AdvRider wrote:Halladay made his final start of the season Wednesday, and yet remains UNDROPPABLE on Thursday and a millstone on my roster, hindering my ability to stream


If you need to "stream", then you managed your innings poorly.

Now you say:

AdvRider wrote:FWIW, I managed IP on this team just fine, thank you … it’s Friday, depending on RP appearances, I'll have 10 to 12 IP left for Saturday and Sunday and I'll be in position on Sunday to snag extra Ks via the loophole that enables you to exceed the max IP throughout the day and still accumulate stats.


Which means you don't need to stream so you're whining just to whine, which is what I said in my original post about it.

Either way, I don't really care which of the two stories is the truth. I didn't respond to anything you didn't say, so let's grow up just a touch, 'K?

Oh, and winning via a loophole isn't winning, but that's a different conversation for a different day, and not one I'd expect you to understand or agree with (based on your poor overreaction to this topic).


Like I said, this shouldn't be about my particular situation, but Yahoo's neglect in updating that CCL. But since you insist on picking apart my statements, impugning my roster-management skills, and showing off your prodigious talent at jumping to errant conclusions...

Pay attention now... :-B

Madison wrote:If you need to "stream", then you managed your innings poorly.


Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. I didn't want to stream SPs on W-Th-Fr-Sa. I wanted to stream RPs with SP eligibility for the chance however remote of a vulture SV e.g. Myers. And a few insurance Ks. I had enough IP cushion to be able to comfortably do that. I WILL want to stream two SPs on Sunday for Ks, because though I have a reasonable lead in Ks my rival has been streaming crazily and effectively all week and has narrowed the gap.

And I wanted to stream batters. (You'll probably make some silly argument that "streaming" applies only to pitching). See, I had gaps in my batting lineup because of the abbreviated Thursday schedule. I wanted to drop Halladay for a batter playing that day. Get it? As for roster management, I was on a pace to be about -1 in games played in the positions in question. Because you're so fixated on my roster-management abilities. :-?

Madison wrote:Doesn't Yahoo have a max games played at each position in public leagues? I thought they did, but could be wrong. If they do indeed have that in place, then we're back to bad roster management, which of course is not Yahoo's responsibility.


Another dumb and poorly reasoned statement, another errant suggestion of "bad roster management." Yes, there's a max games played limit...

The C position, bub. Virtually all teams fall short of the 1250 games played max at C. I should have been able to drop Halladay for a backup C. I should have been able to drop Lincecum for a second backup C if I wanted. My starter is Wieters, picked up a few weeks ago to ride his September surge (2/5 2R 1HR 3RBI Friday, thanks pal! ;-D)

Like I said, the margins for Rs and RBIs is razor thin. If Wieters was going to sit a day or two in the final week, I wanted the flexibility to plug in a C replacement. 1 R, 1 RBI can make a difference here.

I wanted backup batters. If Vlad was gonna sit, I wanted the flexibility to plug in a starter. (I was about -1 on pace for max OF games played, thanks for asking :-? ) Nice thing about wireless, you have the flexibility to make game-time decisions just about anywhere. ;-7

Madison wrote:Oh, and winning via a loophole isn't winning, but that's a different conversation for a different day, and not one I'd expect you to understand or agree with (based on your poor overreaction to this topic).


You can take that up with Yahoo.

Closing Time: End-of-season strategy session
By Andy Behrens
Roto Arcade Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:30 pm EDT

It's possible (and legal) to exceed a games or innings max
Again, we'll consult the official rules: "All players active on the day a maximum is reached will receive credit for their stats."

Let's say that your rotisserie league has an innings maximum of 1250, and your squad is at 1248.1 IP. Depending on the impact that a few extra wins or Ks might have, you may want to load up on probable starters. Every stat accumulated on the day you reach the innings max will count. In the Friends & Family League, I just did the mass-add of starting pitchers in preparation for hit-the-limit day. (And then I later dropped half my pitching staff, picking up a few of the best available bats). The end result is that my team will finish the year 28 innings beyond the max (pictured). With any luck, that move will net me an extra point. With incredible luck, I'll get an extra 1.5. Thanks, Kevin Correia(notes).

Please note that this innings/games max maneuver isn't cheating, nor is it a loophole. These are simply the rules. We're playing a game, and you need to actively manage.


Over and out. May all your streams come true.
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