ayebatter wrote:I'll apologize to any that disagree with me up front, sorry but that coach is an idiot, legal or not, to a 16 year old kid on a football team, what the coach says- goes. Props to the kids that didn't go, and props to the 1st parent that smacks this dude upside the head.
Mookie4ever wrote:I'm not saying that they broke the law, I'm saying that hey should get their asses kicked.
Pastor Ron Davis said that he requires minors to obtain their parents' consent to be baptized, but he added: "Sometimes 16 year olds look like 18 years. We did the best we could."
So you couldn't ask the coach how old these kids were ? I've seen and heard a bit more than most of you, and I have to say this event was so wrong I could just spit.
ayebatter wrote:I'll apologize to any that disagree with me up front, sorry but that coach is an idiot, legal or not, to a 16 year old kid on a football team, what the coach says- goes. Props to the kids that didn't go, and props to the 1st parent that smacks this dude upside the head.
Mookie4ever wrote:I'm not saying that they broke the law, I'm saying that hey should get their asses kicked.
Pastor Ron Davis said that he requires minors to obtain their parents' consent to be baptized, but he added: "Sometimes 16 year olds look like 18 years. We did the best we could."
So you couldn't ask the coach how old these kids were ? I've seen and heard a bit more than most of you, and I have to say this event was so wrong I could just spit.
I don't know where to begin with this...I'll just make a couple points. These points are not meaningful to the "if you're 16 you should be able to make these decisions on your own without parental concent" crowd. Although with the Coach's inherent influence, I think valid points can be made against the way this was handled despite it being "voluntary".
(1) The Coach should have gone the extra step to notify the parents directly and received their approval. He should have realized that with religion involved this could blow up in his face if he didn't.
(2) The Pastor should have confirmed the ages of the kids. Most students (even seniors) are not 18 at the beginning of the school year. He should have assumed they were all minors.
(3) I couldn't care less that a school bus was used. As already noted they can be used outside of the public forum.
Large scale baptism just seems like a poor and inevitably controversial team building exercise. If it was something he really wanted to do, he should have understood the possible backlash and taken extra steps to prevent it.
On a side note the meaning of "theory" in scientific terms is much stronger than how we use it in our day-to-day lives (unless you are a Physicist, Chemist, Biologist, Mathematician, etc. ).
Personally, I don't think the baptizing situation is as big of a deal as some others here. To me, what's a big deal is that people can openly be critical of it without fear of being ostracized. It wasn't so long ago that people were afraid to admit they were atheist or agnostic. Now, as many as 1 out of 6 people (by some counts) worldwide are openly non-religious. Regardless as to whether you think it's a step in the right or wrong direction, as history comes to pass, I think it will be more and more evident how vital a role the internet played in the world's secularization.
josebach wrote:Personally, I don't think the baptizing situation is as big of a deal as some others here. To me, what's a big deal is that people can openly be critical of it without fear of being ostracized. It wasn't so long ago that people were afraid to admit they were atheist or agnostic. Now, as many as 1 out of 6 people (by some counts) worldwide are openly non-religious. Regardless as to whether you think it's a step in the right or wrong direction, as history comes to pass, I think it will be more and more evident how vital a role the internet played in the world's secularization.
So are you suggesting that if someone has responded to this event in a negative vein, that they're atheist or agnostic ?
josebach wrote:Personally, I don't think the baptizing situation is as big of a deal as some others here. To me, what's a big deal is that people can openly be critical of it without fear of being ostracized. It wasn't so long ago that people were afraid to admit they were atheist or agnostic. Now, as many as 1 out of 6 people (by some counts) worldwide are openly non-religious. Regardless as to whether you think it's a step in the right or wrong direction, as history comes to pass, I think it will be more and more evident how vital a role the internet played in the world's secularization.
So are you suggesting that if someone has responded to this event in a negative vein, that they're atheist or agnostic ?
josebach wrote:Personally, I don't think the baptizing situation is as big of a deal as some others here. To me, what's a big deal is that people can openly be critical of it without fear of being ostracized. It wasn't so long ago that people were afraid to admit they were atheist or agnostic. Now, as many as 1 out of 6 people (by some counts) worldwide are openly non-religious. Regardless as to whether you think it's a step in the right or wrong direction, as history comes to pass, I think it will be more and more evident how vital a role the internet played in the world's secularization.
So are you suggesting that if someone has responded to this event in a negative vein, that they're atheist or agnostic ?
acsguitar wrote:Ok when I was in High School the coach said "You don't HAVE to lift weights after school each day from 3 to 4 in the winter to make the baseball team. But it would be a good idea for you to get in shape."
Of course what this meant was "Lift weights in the winter or you aren't playing baseball." It's the same idea here. Like someone before said when you are 16 whatever the coach says goes. It's inappropriate 100% And it's typical of people who push their religion to ignore every bit of law and common sense to promote their religion. Welcome to America I guess. The whole "I don't care what the LAW says as long as god is happy" is a big problem in this country
Not sure how you come up with that meaning, but in a competitive sport, the coach will play the best players. If someone isn't in that "best players" group and wants to play, then they will need to do whatever it takes to make themselves good enough to be in that group. Training harder, hitting the gym, extra practice, whatever.
It's a life lesson more than anything. Companies only hire the best and brightest, sports figures are the best at what they do, and on and on. Kids learning that doing stuff halfway or lazily won't fly isn't a bad thing. They may be trying to do away with "winners" and "losers" out there, but in the real world, there are definitely winners and losers and the sooner kids understand that, the better chance they have at being winners.
You're really stretching here on this topic Acs. A small percentage of the kids got baptized. 8 or 9 out of how many on the team? We had about 80 on our high school football team and if you include everyone including waterboys and such, it was closer to 100, so if that's any reflection of this school, you're talking one in ten or less. If the coach really was trying to "force" the kids to do something, he failed miserably at it. Failed so badly there's just no way to believe he was actually trying to force anything on anyone.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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by Art Vandelay » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:21 pm 
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