Public School Coach takes Team to Get Baptized

[Omaha Red Sox]

btw, don't be nasty about Catholics, I've never said a mean word about hicks

I LOL'ed

I just don't see the insidious behavior you're seeing here. This was a church gathering. People bring friends, acquaintances, neighbors to such things all the time. That's actually encouraged. The goal being to share the gospel (or good news) with them. Sometimes those people choose to respond to it. I don't think it's a requirement of the church to check ID cards at the door.

I think if these parents have a beef with anyone, it's with their own kids.

For what it's worth, before I introduce any of my kid's friends to our faith in any way, be it books, music, church, whatever, I always get their parent's permission first. It's not my place to impose my will on another parent's child. I wouldn't want someone doing that to my kid without my knowledge.

[bigh0rt]

Because I think by 16 most people have the ability to think and act for themselves. If we allowed them to do so, or even moreso, charged them with doing so, I think they'd be more likely to make good decisions. People are going to make poor decisions and do stupid things whenever they first start making those important decisions for themselves, whether that's at 16, 18, or 21. This may be a circular argument, but I believe the benefit of allowing younger people to make those decisions is exactly that: allowing them to make their own decisions. It's a benefit in and of itself.

What does that even mean? My 9-year old has the ability to think and act for himself. The so-called 'benefit' of giving someone a liberty could very well, is very likely to, hurt themselves and others as well. This would not be a benefit to them or anyone else by helping them feel good or whatever because now they get to vote and make these big decisions for themselves, when they obviously are not ready to. You're still learning social abilities at 16. That's when a ton of very valuable lessons are taught, discovered, and giving a kid the ability to learn those without incredible ramifications is a blessed thing. Taking that away from them would be detrimental to their upbringing. Making them immediately accountable too early would cripple them and stunt their development as a viable asset to society.

At 16 you are a minor so you are not legally capable. You can't sign contracts or bind yourself without your parents or becoming emancipated. But baptisms are done on infants because it is a family sacrament. This is a family decision for minors. This isn't a decision that a minor canmake on their own.

I said this like 10 pages ago, and then you come in with your legal mumbo jumbo and people start listening.

[knapplc]

At 16 you are a minor so you are not legally capable. You can't sign contracts or bind yourself without your parents or becoming emancipated. But baptisms are done on infants because it is a family sacrament. This is a family decision for minors. This isn't a decision that a minor canmake on their own.

I said this like 10 pages ago, and then you come in with your legal mumbo jumbo and people start listening.

People are listening - that doesn't mean the argument right. This isn't a legal issue, at least as far as the sacrament is concerned. This argument holds no more water now than it did when you said it.

[Art Vandelay]

If you're a group purporting to do the will of the Almighty...chances are you are wrong.

This.

[knapplc]

If you're a group purporting to do the will of the Almighty...chances are you are wrong.

This.

This whole "fixed your post" or modifying someone else's post to change the meaning trend... man it's tiresome.

[acsguitar]

<edit> This has to be what acs what hoping for all along - that we would start arguing amongst ourselves.

Mwahahhaahahhahahahhahawhhhahahwha *evil laugh*

I'm good at it...I mean look at my Ichiro thread. Somehow it turned into a fist fight over whether Ichiro is the best or worst player ever!

[Art Vandelay]

If you're a group purporting to do the will of the Almighty...chances are you are wrong.

This.

This whole "fixed your post" or modifying someone else's post to change the meaning trend... man it's awesome.

This.

[ayebatter]

This.

This whole "fixed your post" or modifying someone else's post to change the meaning trend... man it's awesome.

This.

Art, I'd prefer I didn't have to look so hard at what was changed, please help an old guy out on this.

[Madison]

Madison, I'm with you on all counts, but don't you wonder what was happening on school time? I'm not saying it was harmful, but I think it deserves to be investigated. Religion does not belong in schools unless it's in a class that is fairly studying multiple religions. That's the way it needs to be to keep the principles of our country in tact. Once that is lost, we've thrown away the reason this country came to exist in the first place. Of all people, I think you would be the first to agree with that.

The majority of the world believes in a higher being of some sort. Expecting the topic to never be discussed while on school property seems to me to be a bit of a silly expectation. Not to mention there are much more damaging things that can and should be "investigated" or taken care of. Let's rid schools of all guns and drugs for starters. Accomplish that, and then we can talk about what's next to investigate.

Why can't we have both?

As a teacher you know that schools don't have an unlimited money supply. The money and time need to be invested into eliminating the most dangerous things, rather than wasting both on something far less damaging/important. Once #1 is gone (drugs), move to #2 (guns). Once #2 is gone, move to #3 (gangs). A discussion about religion certainly doesn't rank very highly on the list.

How did these kids suddenly decide to become christian?

Who says they were not Christians before? One can be a Christian and not be baptized. I didn't see anywhere in the article where anyone "converted" from a different religion.

I'm ranting against forcing religious beliefs on people in school.

You keep saying that yet you've given zero proof that your accusation happened. Everything in the article contradicts what you're saying, other than a parent or two who's attempting to slander the coach/school for their kid's problem of not telling them about the trip.

You don't think science teachers influence kids about the origin of the universe depending on what they personally believe?

"The Big Bang" theory anyone? Not saying it didn't happen or anything because I believe the science that says it did, but Christians do not believe the human race was started via evolution from The Big Bang. Yet I don't see people up in arms to get the "theory" removed from the classroom. Talk about a double-standard...

How am I supposed to argue in support of this without using my own personal beliefs to support my claim? The benefit is that 16-year-olds will be treated as adults, which is how I believe it should be. A lot of 16-year-olds make stupid decisions, all of them, most likely. I certainly did. Heck, I still do. As do a lot of 18-year-olds, 21-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 45-year-olds, and 90-year-olds. I think people with the capacity should have control over their own lives. I think most 16-year-olds have that capacity, even if they don't necessarily utilize it.

It's an interesting puzzle, isn't it? Personally, rather than age, I'd love to see some sort of aptitude test be the measuring stick instead of how many days someone has been breathing. Unfortunately, getting a "good" test that would do the job would probably prove impossible to do.

well, i didnt take a general science class in high school, we had Biology, Chemistry, Physics for kids that were considered "college bound" and Earth Science or something like that...so maybe that was covered there...i really dont know

Think further back. My kid is in 5th grade, been publicly schooled his whole life, and has already learned about the Big Bang Theory and it wasn't this year.

1. The coach goes against the law in Kentucky or BARELY skirts the law

Not only is discussing your faith in a god NOT against the law, it is expressly PROTECTED by law.

3. The coach uses his power as a person in authority to "suggest" people join his religion. Apparently assuming that no one would be at all worried that if they don't go to this Religious service they might be cut

The coach did no such thing. The Supreme Court has stated there must be coercion involved in the situation for it to be unlawful. Since the kids were allowed to go or allowed to stay home with zero consequence either way, there is no coercion.

4. The superintendent lets him use the SCHOOL VAN! oh but he paid for gas so thats ok. Did the van have the schools emblem on it? What if the van was in an accident. I'm sure tax payers would love that.

School vehicles are used for any number of things. Prohibiting use of the school van for this function would violate state law if it has ever been used for any other non-school function in the past. Public Accommodations laws have been on the books for decades, and religion has always been a protected basis. Had the school denied the use of the van for this event they would have violated the law.

Nice post.

I only read the original article and not any of the 15 pages of posts. All I can say is that I am disgusted by what the coach did and what the priest did.

This is a sacrament and is supposed to be taken seriously. You don't sneak kids off and do this in an afternoon. Not only do the parents have to consent but they have to be involved. It isn't just a bath it's so much more. You have to be a member of the church first of all. At a minimum you have to take a course so that the priest knows that you know what you are getting into. Was this done in some two bit church that does drive in weddings too? Totally ridiculous. If anyone did this to my kid I would punch their lights out. The disrespect shown to the parents and to the sacrament is revolting.

Read the thread Mookie. It's basically you and ACS on that side of the coin. Need I say more?

If you baptize, bar mitzvah or bring my kid to a coven gathering without my say so you should get the same thing.

What if you're kid knew all the details about the trip and did it anyway without telling you all of the details ahead of time? His fault or the coach's? If you say the coach's, you're shielding your kid from his responsiblity to himself and to you. If you say your kid, then your entire argument is out the window. Pick!

[AquaMan2342]

This.

This whole "fixed your post" or modifying someone else's post to change the meaning trend... man it's awesome.

This.

lol