Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz! - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:53 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:The guy found me on Youtube and demanded that I give him a bunch of free stuff. I declined, so he went completely ape[mod edit] on me.

....So the entire family gets penalized? :-? Or if he did some stuff from a friend's computer as well, do both families get penalized? :-? Either way, there would be no way to prove it was him that called me on the phone, because pay phones don't have a static IP that could be traced back to the personal information of the one using it. Yes, I can absolutely prove that those 50 emails calling me a stupid idiot were sent by someone in that guy's house, but what I would actually care about is who was the one that called my family one to three times in the wee hours of the morning almost every day for four months or call several people that I know and spread some really nasty rumors (both actually happened to someone). There's no way to connect the internet IP address to the pay phone two blocks away with which the calls were actually made other than circumstantial evidence.

This guy isn't even unique. There's tens of thousands of people like him congregating on the internet on websites like the infamous 4chan. I've read some horror stories about what happened when they got the personal information of some controversial figures. Imagine if they were given the opportunity to harass whoever they want and whenever they want, just a pay phone or a proxy away.


So you met on the net. Ok, so do you really believe he would have acted the same way if he knew ahead of time that he was responsible for any and all things he did on the net? Even if the answer is yes, you'd have his info and legal action would have been taken against him. Done deal.

And yes, the owner of the dwelling would ultimately be responsible. It's not an unusual position, we've already got it with guns, cars, phones, etc. The owners are ultimately responsible for anything done with those items.

Pay phones are going the way of the dinosaur, just read an article last week on msnbc.com about how hard it is to even find a pay phone nowadays. Made their "Top 40" list of things that were "dead" and no longer around in today's world. And proxies would be illegal. If the internet was configured the best way possible, proxies would be impossible.

I am sorry to hear you ran into a crazy guy (sorry I didn't say that sooner).

Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:You guys must live in a world where there are no crooked or vengeful cops, politicians, bosses, teachers, co-workers, neighbors, etc., etc., etc.


Wait! I forgot to put on my tin foil hat today! The bad guys musta done got me! I knew to just screw that thing into my skull! Why oh why didn't I listen and understand that the whole world is crooked and out to get me? :~(

An occasional desire--or need--for anonymity isn't the exclusive domain of tin foil hat conspiracy theory nut jobs. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of examples just from my small town where someone had information to make public but wanted to remain anonymous where it was a perfectly reasonable request.

Do you think law enforcement agencies should have get rid of their anonymous tip lines? Should we do away with anonymous voting?


I read the post and responded in turn. If everyone's truely out to get us, we should be wearing tin foil hats, no? :-D I don't disagree that there are a few bad apples out there, but we're far, far away from having to be scared.

Since you said you can think of five examples, how about giving me just one? I'm in a sprawling metroplex and cannot come up with a single reason. If a small town has five off the top of your head, I'd love to know just what I must be missing.

Sheep are spineless, so the law unfortunately has to keep the anonymous tip lines. Not that they are truely anonymous, but whatever. As to voting, sure, make it public. No real reason not to.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby urbanbreez » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:02 pm

You people understand where anonymity and democracy intersect. Correct?

The expression of opinion under condition of anonymity is a cornerstone of democracy. As Tavish has explained, in great detail. Aside from the overwhelming and practically impossible task of holding each person accountable for each statement, it’s plainly unconstitutional.
urbanbreez
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3200
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Los Angeles. U Jelly?

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:16 pm

Madison wrote:I read the post and responded in turn. If everyone's truely out to get us, we should be wearing tin foil hats, no? :-D I don't disagree that there are a few bad apples out there, but we're far, far away from having to be scared.

Noting that someone, somewhere might inflict damage--physical or otherwise--on someone else in their own self interest isn't the same as "everyone is out to get us."

Madison wrote:Since you said you can think of five examples, how about giving me just one? I'm in a sprawling metroplex and cannot come up with a single reason. If a small town has five off the top of your head, I'd love to know just what I must be missing.

Lady saw her neighbor shoot and kill an illegal deer out of season. She called the anonymous poaching hotline that my state has and reported him. To me, that's a great example of when anonymity is useful. A single woman living alone shouldn't have to be worried because her obviously armed neighbor is upset that he got arrested for poaching.

A guy who works for the largest employer in my county learned that his company was illegally dumping untreated water into a local waterway in violation of several federal laws, including the Endangered Species Act (because the waterway they were dumping into flowed into a salmon spawning area) and the Clean Water Act. He reported them anonymously because he feared (rightfully so, it turned out) that he would at worst lose his job and at best be ostracized by his co-workers. You shouldn't have to choose between a job and a conscience.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:13 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:I read the post and responded in turn. If everyone's truely out to get us, we should be wearing tin foil hats, no? :-D I don't disagree that there are a few bad apples out there, but we're far, far away from having to be scared.

Noting that someone, somewhere might inflict damage--physical or otherwise--on someone else in their own self interest isn't the same as "everyone is out to get us."


That's not the way what you wrote came across though. ;-) My response might not have come across as lighthearted as I meant it to though. :-D

Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:Since you said you can think of five examples, how about giving me just one? I'm in a sprawling metroplex and cannot come up with a single reason. If a small town has five off the top of your head, I'd love to know just what I must be missing.

Lady saw her neighbor shoot and kill an illegal deer out of season. She called the anonymous poaching hotline that my state has and reported him. To me, that's a great example of when anonymity is useful. A single woman living alone shouldn't have to be worried because her obviously armed neighbor is upset that he got arrested for poaching.

A guy who works for the largest employer in my county learned that his company was illegally dumping untreated water into a local waterway in violation of several federal laws, including the Endangered Species Act (because the waterway they were dumping into flowed into a salmon spawning area) and the Clean Water Act. He reported them anonymously because he feared (rightfully so, it turned out) that he would at worst lose his job and at best be ostracized by his co-workers. You shouldn't have to choose between a job and a conscience.


Think you're grandstanding a bit with the "obviously armed" part? :-D Big difference in killing a deer and killing a person. :-b Still no real need for anonimity though. If he were to retaliate, the punishment against him would be huge and he would be ostracized by the community for his actions (if the poaching wasn't enough to do that already). Sure, being anonymous *might* (stress *might*) have saved her a bit of worry and headache, but no one has ever said doing the right thing is easy. If it was, we'd have zero criminals in this world and everyone would be a saint.

Guessing example #2 found out that "anonymous" doesn't really mean "anonymous" most of the time? :-D He could have still reported it and disclosed who he is to the agency involved, and they'd have shielded him and his information as much as possible. Even if it came out that he's the one who did it, other companies would snatch him up if he's worth his salt at his job. A bit sad he'd want to work for a company participating in illegal dumping. I doubt he'd have taken the job if he knew, so why did he want to stay after he found out? Gotta love some people's mentality sometimes I guess. :-?

What's odd is in both examples "anonymous" is actually someone playing Big Brother and aren't you generally against Big Brother?

Oh, and in both cases, the accused do have the right to face their accuser. I mentioned that once before in this thread and it got completely ignored (not surprisingly). So "anonymous" is violating the rights of the bad guys (and I know a lot of people on this forum argue in favor of the bad guys' rights, so where are those people now?).
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:22 pm

Madison wrote:Think you're grandstanding a bit with the "obviously armed" part? :-D

Meh. I guess I could have said "obviously has access to and knows how to use a fire arm. Six of one, half dozen of the other.


Madison wrote:Sure, being anonymous *might* (stress *might*) have saved her a bit of worry and headache

It did.


Guessing example #2 found out that "anonymous" doesn't really mean "anonymous" most of the time? :-D[/quote]
No. He "outed" himself in a guest opinion in the newspaper after it became a big story locally.

Madison wrote:A bit sad he'd want to work for a company participating in illegal dumping. I doubt he'd have taken the job if he knew, so why did he want to stay after he found out? Gotta love some people's mentality sometimes I guess. :-?

Uhhh...he didn't want to work for a company participating in illegal dumping, hence the reporting it.

Madison wrote:What's odd is in both examples "anonymous" is actually someone playing Big Brother and aren't you generally against Big Brother?

Actually, neither of those are examples of Big Brother

Madison wrote:Oh, and in both cases, the accused do have the right to face their accuser. I mentioned that once before in this thread and it got completely ignored (not surprisingly). So "anonymous" is violating the rights of the bad guys (and I know a lot of people on this forum argue in favor of the bad guys' rights, so where are those people now?).

I can't speak for the second scenario because I don't have any first-hand knowledge of it, but in the first he absolutely would have had the right to face his accuser had he gone to trial and they needed her testimony for a conviction. He plead out though, so that never became an issue. His rights weren't taken.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Neato Torpedo » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:39 pm

Madison wrote:What's odd is in both examples "anonymous" is actually someone playing Big Brother and aren't you generally against Big Brother?

Aren't you generally for Big Brother? :-?
Image

Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
Neato Torpedo
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerWeb Supporter
Posts: 8618
Joined: 4 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: we don't burn gasoline, we burn our dreams

Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:55 am

Art Vandelay wrote:Uhhh...he didn't want to work for a company participating in illegal dumping, hence the reporting it.


Still seems like funny behavior to me. Quit, out the company, and move to one that doesn't dump illegally. Competitors would love the good PR of hiring someone who would do that. Wanting to stay with the same company though? Just plain weird, not to mention it was likely to kill his career in that company. There was no way his name wouldn't come out in that one, so just standing up and doing what needed to be done was the way to go. Seems he figured that out a bit late, but at least he figured it out.

Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:What's odd is in both examples "anonymous" is actually someone playing Big Brother and aren't you generally against Big Brother?

Actually, neither of those are examples of Big Brother


Spying and nosing into things that aren't someone's business is exactly what Big Brother is. :-b The lady caught the guy poaching, which had nothing to do with her. The guy found out about the dumping, and unless his job specifically involved the company's waste removal, that wasn't his business either. So in both cases, it was certainly Big Brother watching. Big Brother doesn't only and specifically refer to the government.

Art Vandelay wrote:I can't speak for the second scenario because I don't have any first-hand knowledge of it, but in the first he absolutely would have had the right to face his accuser had he gone to trial and they needed her testimony for a conviction. He plead out though, so that never became an issue. His rights weren't taken.


Still. The fact he was forced to go to trial in order to face his accuser isn't cool in my book, he should have the right to face his accuser without the risk of a jury messing up and convicting an innocent person (think of an innocent person going to trial specifically to find out who lied about him/her). Makes it too easy for bogus claims and accusations when people can hide.

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Madison wrote:What's odd is in both examples "anonymous" is actually someone playing Big Brother and aren't you generally against Big Brother?

Aren't you generally for Big Brother? :-?


Depends. I probably do argue in favor of Big Brother more than I argue against it though.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Previous

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Oct. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact