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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:09 am

Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:I would agree that here in the US we are past the use of anonymous as a safeguard for our life like Payne faced with Common Sense except in the very extreme cases. Bloggers from countries like China and Iran who are facing that level of tyranny and use the anonymous cloak to report to the rest of the world their viewpoints likely have some strong opinions on its usefulness.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the example you should have used! :-D

Honestly I was thinking too small. Only "us" as in America, and there is zero reason to hide in America. Dunno why I didn't think globally. Yes, I'll agree that those protections in some foreign countries are vastly important. ;-D
Do you have any idea how many psychos there are on the internet? I've had not one but two internet stalkers with me in their crosshairs. Thank god I have my personal info so well hidden, otherwise my family would have been harassed with phone calls at all hours of the night and my social circles would have a whole new batch of nasty rumors being spread about. I know this because I was in contact with other targets/victims of one of the psychos. The Cafe is lucky because we are almost exclusively sane people (and fattykid, while insane, appears to be relatively harmless), but places like Youtube and my friend's bizarre spam-dedicated website are definitely not.
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ofanrex: go on
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Rocinante2: lmao

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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Dan Lambskin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:14 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:I would agree that here in the US we are past the use of anonymous as a safeguard for our life like Payne faced with Common Sense except in the very extreme cases. Bloggers from countries like China and Iran who are facing that level of tyranny and use the anonymous cloak to report to the rest of the world their viewpoints likely have some strong opinions on its usefulness.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the example you should have used! :-D

Honestly I was thinking too small. Only "us" as in America, and there is zero reason to hide in America. Dunno why I didn't think globally. Yes, I'll agree that those protections in some foreign countries are vastly important. ;-D
Do you have any idea how many psychos there are on the internet? I've had not one but two internet stalkers with me in their crosshairs. Thank god I have my personal info so well hidden, otherwise my family would have been harassed with phone calls at all hours of the night and my social circles would have a whole new batch of nasty rumors being spread about. I know this because I was in contact with other targets/victims of one of the psychos. The Cafe is lucky because we are almost exclusively sane people (and fattykid, while insane, appears to be relatively harmless), but places like Youtube and my friend's bizarre spam-dedicated website are definitely not.


does he own yzzerdd (NOTE: it was a website from Aqua Teen Hunger Force that was poking fun at how bad popups are, but there is a real site but i aint clicking it)
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:16 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:I would agree that here in the US we are past the use of anonymous as a safeguard for our life like Payne faced with Common Sense except in the very extreme cases. Bloggers from countries like China and Iran who are facing that level of tyranny and use the anonymous cloak to report to the rest of the world their viewpoints likely have some strong opinions on its usefulness.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the example you should have used! :-D

Honestly I was thinking too small. Only "us" as in America, and there is zero reason to hide in America. Dunno why I didn't think globally. Yes, I'll agree that those protections in some foreign countries are vastly important. ;-D
Do you have any idea how many psychos there are on the internet? I've had not one but two internet stalkers with me in their crosshairs. Thank god I have my personal info so well hidden, otherwise my family would have been harassed with phone calls at all hours of the night and my social circles would have a whole new batch of nasty rumors being spread about. I know this because I was in contact with other targets/victims of one of the psychos. The Cafe is lucky because we are almost exclusively sane people (and fattykid, while insane, appears to be relatively harmless), but places like Youtube and my friend's bizarre spam-dedicated website are definitely not.


And on the flipside, said psycho would be locked up with legal action against him so you'd have no worries. Goes both ways.
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Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:46 am

I'm not talking about plain old harassment over the internet, Mad, I'm talking about these people harassing my friends and family with phone calls at all hours of the night (something that could be covered quite easily by using a pay phone) and screwing with me by calling people I know and spreading really annoying rumors about me and my family. I can brush off being bombarded with 50 emails calling me a stupid jerk, but with the proper personal information, they can cross the internet-to-real-life line very easily.
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Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Tavish » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:11 pm

Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:I would agree that here in the US we are past the use of anonymous as a safeguard for our life like Payne faced with Common Sense except in the very extreme cases. Bloggers from countries like China and Iran who are facing that level of tyranny and use the anonymous cloak to report to the rest of the world their viewpoints likely have some strong opinions on its usefulness.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the example you should have used! :-D

Honestly I was thinking too small. Only "us" as in America, and there is zero reason to hide in America. Dunno why I didn't think globally. Yes, I'll agree that those protections in some foreign countries are vastly important. ;-D

In all honesty those foreign examples are no different than the domestic ones I posted earlier. The desire to protect your family or yourself from harassment, prejudice, or other hardships that can come from speaking your opinion here in the US can be just as powerful motivation to remain silent as risking imprisonment or your life in a foreign country.
The same logic that Americans should man up and put their name to everything they say can be applied to foreigners as well. If an Iranian wanted to blog about the injustices they are facing their they should be willing to possibly die or be imprisoned for it, just as if an American wanted to discuss a potential law regarding their sexuality they should be willing to possibly lose their job and be ostracized from their friends and family over it.
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:36 pm

I really don't understand how anyone can argue that there isn't a need for anonymous speech to be protected. Both on and off the internet.
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:51 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:I'm not talking about plain old harassment over the internet, Mad, I'm talking about these people harassing my friends and family with phone calls at all hours of the night (something that could be covered quite easily by using a pay phone) and screwing with me by calling people I know and spreading really annoying rumors about me and my family. I can brush off being bombarded with 50 emails calling me a stupid jerk, but with the proper personal information, they can cross the internet-to-real-life line very easily.


Tick off someone in one of your leagues or something? :-D

All kidding aside, as I said, with real information, the psycho would be handled and taken care of, leaving you (and any other victims) in peace. That would be a good thing.

Tavish wrote:
Madison wrote:
Tavish wrote:I would agree that here in the US we are past the use of anonymous as a safeguard for our life like Payne faced with Common Sense except in the very extreme cases. Bloggers from countries like China and Iran who are facing that level of tyranny and use the anonymous cloak to report to the rest of the world their viewpoints likely have some strong opinions on its usefulness.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's the example you should have used! :-D

Honestly I was thinking too small. Only "us" as in America, and there is zero reason to hide in America. Dunno why I didn't think globally. Yes, I'll agree that those protections in some foreign countries are vastly important. ;-D

In all honesty those foreign examples are no different than the domestic ones I posted earlier. The desire to protect your family or yourself from harassment, prejudice, or other hardships that can come from speaking your opinion here in the US can be just as powerful motivation to remain silent as risking imprisonment or your life in a foreign country.
The same logic that Americans should man up and put their name to everything they say can be applied to foreigners as well. If an Iranian wanted to blog about the injustices they are facing their they should be willing to possibly die or be imprisoned for it, just as if an American wanted to discuss a potential law regarding their sexuality they should be willing to possibly lose their job and be ostracized from their friends and family over it.


True, but I was trying to be softer and the ramifications for speaking out against injustice in some other countries is much more severe than it is here in the U.S. So I was trying to soften up and find some middle ground. Doesn't change my opinion any on things here, but I do acknowledge that things in other countries are quite different.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:39 pm

Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I'm not talking about plain old harassment over the internet, Mad, I'm talking about these people harassing my friends and family with phone calls at all hours of the night (something that could be covered quite easily by using a pay phone) and screwing with me by calling people I know and spreading really annoying rumors about me and my family. I can brush off being bombarded with 50 emails calling me a stupid jerk, but with the proper personal information, they can cross the internet-to-real-life line very easily.


Tick off someone in one of your leagues or something? :-D

All kidding aside, as I said, with real information, the psycho would be handled and taken care of, leaving you (and any other victims) in peace. That would be a good thing.

....How? Since they wouldn't be using the internet to terrorize and annoy people, how would they be tracked down? Hell, they could get a friend of theirs or pay a random person to actually make the phone calls via pay phone and therefore removing all trace of themselves. Besides, if there's more than one person using the same internet connection, the personal information evidence is circumstantial, given that it could be anyone in the family using the computer. It would cost me a lot of money to hire a good attorney in a court case that I would probably eventually lose. It would be significantly cheaper and less insanely time-consuming for me just to not give out my personal information on the internet.
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Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby urbanbreez » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I really don't understand how anyone can argue that there isn't a need for anonymous speech to be protected. Both on and off the internet.

There really is no argument but it doesn't seem to stop people from trying.
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Re: Beez careful what ya say on ze interwebz!

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:07 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:
Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I'm not talking about plain old harassment over the internet, Mad, I'm talking about these people harassing my friends and family with phone calls at all hours of the night (something that could be covered quite easily by using a pay phone) and screwing with me by calling people I know and spreading really annoying rumors about me and my family. I can brush off being bombarded with 50 emails calling me a stupid jerk, but with the proper personal information, they can cross the internet-to-real-life line very easily.


Tick off someone in one of your leagues or something? :-D

All kidding aside, as I said, with real information, the psycho would be handled and taken care of, leaving you (and any other victims) in peace. That would be a good thing.

....How? Since they wouldn't be using the internet to terrorize and annoy people, how would they be tracked down? Hell, they could get a friend of theirs or pay a random person to actually make the phone calls via pay phone and therefore removing all trace of themselves. Besides, if there's more than one person using the same internet connection, the personal information evidence is circumstantial, given that it could be anyone in the family using the computer. It would cost me a lot of money to hire a good attorney in a court case that I would probably eventually lose. It would be significantly cheaper and less insanely time-consuming for me just to not give out my personal information on the internet.


Ok, forgive me, but I'm a bit lost. :-? Let me try to clear this up a bit.

You met the psycho on the net right? Or did you tick off the psycho in real life and it spilled over to the net?

If you met him on the net, then his info would be available and he could be held accountable for it. If you met him in real life, then at least you wouldn't be hounded on the net.

Prosecuting someone is free if you've got a case. Just takes a bit of time to fill out paperwork, so there aren't any issues there.

And as I said earlier, everyone gets a static IP and are responsible for what happens off of that IP. So if he's sharing a connection with someone or that person is sharing with him, then all parties involved are responsible.

urbanbreez wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I really don't understand how anyone can argue that there isn't a need for anonymous speech to be protected. Both on and off the internet.

There really is no argument but it doesn't seem to stop people from trying.


No one's arguing, just discussing. :-) Maybe my opinion isn't the best one, there's no way for me to know without discussing the topic and getting other people's views. Maybe they know something I don't, or maybe there's something I'm overlooking. Personally, I'd like to hear a good reason for someone to make an accusation and then hide behind a computer. I've stipulated that other countries are harsher, so preferably an example in the U.S. right now would be perfect. If someone has an example of course. If not, that's cool, but nothing has been said so far that changes my opinion that the internet should not be an anonymous wonderland and that everyone should be held accountable for anything and everything they say and do on the net. If someone can change my opinion, more power to them. :-) ;-D
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
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