West wrote:This is like trying to argue with a brick wall. Just because a player is occupies the same position as the one you are trading for doesn't mean the trade isn't worth making. Sometimes you think the player you're getting is better, sometimes it's because you're getting stronger in a different category through the trade (like trading Manny for Carl Crawford, you give away power, you get speed).
Look, we're not all trying to say that Gonzalez is the next Braun or Pujols. The point that some of us are making is that he actually does have a track record in the minors which indicates the potential for success in the majors.
This is hilarious. If 70 at bats is a "ridiculously small sample size", what does that make 102 at bats? You contradict yourself. I won't go quoting more "insignificant" minor league numbers for you, like his career .832 OPS over 2470 career minor league at bats, since minor league numbers are so useless. I guess none of us should look at them anymore, and we'll just be pleasantly surprised when players like Longoria, Braun and Lincecum actually continue their success in the majors.
No, more importantly, what part did YOU not understand?? The A's and Dbacks DIDN'T GIVE UP ON GONZALEZ. Beat that through your skull. I love how Havok explained that to you and then you skipped right over it and kept insulting people. He was the 3rd best prospect in their system and 18th best in all the minors when the Dbacks traded him along with, among others, Brett Anderson, for DAN HAREN. After a short stay with the A's, he was traded with Greg Smith and Huston Street for MATT HOLLIDAY. So yeah, those two organizations really gave up on him. They really gave up on him and got nothing in return, just a top 10 pitcher and an elite outfielder. Really awful moves there.
Just realize that you have no idea what you're talking about and we might make some progress in this thread.
I KNOW THE TRADE WAS WORTH IT. I KNOW IT WAS A GOOD TRADE FOR SURFS UP. I JUST SAID IT WAS ODD/UNUSUAL/STRANGE/ILLOGICAL/RARE BECAUSE IT'S A 1-1 AND THE OTHER OWNER SHOULD SEE QUITE CLEARLY HE'S GETTING THE SHORTER END OF THE STICK. IF I COULD DO THAT IN MY LEAGUE, I WOULD, BUT UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T PLAY WITH PEOPLE THAT STUPID. GOD, I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I CAN REPEAT THIS WITHOUT PEOPLE UNDERSTANDING.
Don't speak for your fellow Cafe members. There were all-the-way comparisons made to Braun/Lincecum, or at least CGonz having that similar immediate rookie impact. You can't back-track just because that hurts your argument.
404 combined MLB ABs is a sample size, albeit small. 70 ABs is nothing, and everyone is getting worked up over it. The kid is still 23!!! Minor league numbers are great, but again, we don't play AAA Fantasy Baseball, and he's had growing pains. Do you want to rely on growing pains right now????
And yeah, the Dbacks and A's did give up on him. Both organizations are small market teams that would love to have a price-controlled stud from their own farm system. CGonz was talented but frustrating, and they both gave up on him and shipped him elsewhere. Regardless of the haul in return, they GAVE UP ON HIM. HE'S NO LONGER PART OF THEIR ORGANIZATION. I ALSO DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE CLEARLY THIS CAN BE SAID.
I'm done with this thread, you all can return to raving about how much of a stud this kid is and have him bust you out of Round 1 in the playoffs by posting an 0/28 week.
Rockies suck, Carlos Gonzalez sucks, and you have all made me eternally hate my first non-Yankee, non-Barry Bonds, MLB player.
You say these teams gave up on him like Carlos Gonzalez wasn't the major piece in the trade for... Matt Holliday. Come on guy. You're shot.
not that I'm completely writing Carlos out. But to be fair, all his minor league hype were athleticism and projection based. He never really had that astounding of a minor league season. His 2 very good minor league season are age 20 in Lancaster(which is arguably the best hitting environment in all of minor league baseball. But then again you can argue for LV or High Desert. So we'll say one of the best) and this year, his third year at AAA.
Not saying CarGon don't have potential, just saying he has yielded little results in the past.
Are you interested in joining a 28 teams dynasty league? If so, PM me.
I have to agree that most of his hype is surrounded by his mega potential. The biggest problem he has had was his k/bb ratios, which seemed to turn a corner this year and not surprisingly he has had more success. Still, he'll finish the season off at 23 years old and he'll probably only get stronger and a better eye at the plate as he gets older.
PlayingWithFire wrote:not that I'm completely writing Carlos out. But to be fair, all his minor league hype were athleticism and projection based. He never really had that astounding of a minor league season. His 2 very good minor league season are age 20 in Lancaster(which is arguably the best hitting environment in all of minor league baseball. But then again you can argue for LV or High Desert. So we'll say one of the best) and this year, his third year at AAA.
Not saying CarGon don't have potential, just saying he has yielded little results in the past.
Agreed, his numbers in the minors aren't mind blowing or anything. I don't think too many people are expecting monster numbers or anything. To be honest though, he will probably be a solid play for Sept., as you can start him for the first 10 games (all at home), then bench him through the road stretch (9 games in the middle of Sept.), then start him for the stretch - 9 home games in a row from 9/22 to Oct. 1.
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by bigh0rt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:55 pm 
