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Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:36 am

Surfs up wrote:First a knife and now a jammed thumb. I just traded for him.


Hopefully you didn't trade anything of value for him. It'd be a pretty dumb move to trade decent value away for an unproven, rookie prospect, even if he is highly regarded, especially this close to the playoffs. Did you trade a struggling Brian Roberts for a red-hot Emilo Bonifacio in Week 1 as well?
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby acsguitar » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:02 pm

thejusman1 wrote:
Surfs up wrote:First a knife and now a jammed thumb. I just traded for him.


Hopefully you didn't trade anything of value for him. It'd be a pretty dumb move to trade decent value away for an unproven, rookie prospect, even if he is highly regarded, especially this close to the playoffs. Did you trade a struggling Brian Roberts for a red-hot Emilo Bonifacio in Week 1 as well?


He's not a rookie
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:34 pm

acsguitar wrote:
thejusman1 wrote:
Surfs up wrote:First a knife and now a jammed thumb. I just traded for him.


Hopefully you didn't trade anything of value for him. It'd be a pretty dumb move to trade decent value away for an unproven, rookie prospect, even if he is highly regarded, especially this close to the playoffs. Did you trade a struggling Brian Roberts for a red-hot Emilo Bonifacio in Week 1 as well?


He's not a rookie


Oh yes, forgive me, he logged 302 ABs last year. That makes him a verifiable stud veteran for sure. There's no rookie adjustments to be made or anything, he's not a developing player with huge question marks attached to his productivity. Fact is, if he didn't play a full season's worth of games last year, I think it's pretty safe to assume he's pretty green, regardless of how strict you want to interpret the phrase "rookie."
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby AussieDodger » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:41 pm

thejusman1 wrote:Oh yes, forgive me, he logged 302 ABs last year. That makes him a verifiable stud veteran for sure. There's no rookie adjustments to be made or anything, he's not a developing player with huge question marks attached to his productivity. Fact is, if he didn't play a full season's worth of games last year, I think it's pretty safe to assume he's pretty green, regardless of how strict you want to interpret the phrase "rookie."



A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the major leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a major league club or clubs during the period of a 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service).



:-?
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:04 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
thejusman1 wrote:Oh yes, forgive me, he logged 302 ABs last year. That makes him a verifiable stud veteran for sure. There's no rookie adjustments to be made or anything, he's not a developing player with huge question marks attached to his productivity. Fact is, if he didn't play a full season's worth of games last year, I think it's pretty safe to assume he's pretty green, regardless of how strict you want to interpret the phrase "rookie."



A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the major leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a major league club or clubs during the period of a 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service).



:-?


Geez, you guys are anal about definitions. Go ahead and trade for Carlos Gonzalez for your playoff stretch run and into the playoffs. Let me know how that works out for you. The point I was trying to make is that an unproven batter who has played less than the full season last year while batting .242, and only has 171 ABs this year is an unreliable, unproven, green, "rookie" option. Think of it like relying on Scherzer or Price for the stretch-run. You can spout all you want about the exact definitions of "rookie" players, bring up smart-mouthed responses quoting MLB, but I don't think there's any argument in saying Carlos Gonzales is a very green, unproven, and risky option, and to have traded anything of value to acquire him is not a wise fantasy move. In my book, his overall inexperience makes him a rookie, no different than the other mid-season call-ups last year, and like the others, more inclined to be a bust than a boom.

But, nah, since he's played over the 45 days on an MLB roster, he's not a rookie at all. %-6
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:05 pm

Tim Lincecum has had a pretty short career...he is a lock for NL ROY correct?
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:16 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:Tim Lincecum has had a pretty short career...he is a lock for NL ROY correct?


Completely irrelevant. Lincecum has pitched for more than a full season now and can be judged on multiple seasons of excellence. This is yet another example of someone wishing to adhere to strict definitions rather than common sense. This isn't ROY voting, it's fantasy baseball, and it's the most crucial time of the season, fantasy playoffs. If there are players in their prime and there are players who are veterans, what is at the other end of the spectrum? Young, inconsistent, and developing players, more commonly called "rookies" by most anyone who doesn't use a strict MLB definition. And the point of my original post is that playing the hot hand via WW may be okay, but to trade in order to acquire the hot hand must mean you detracted a worthwhile component of your team for a high-risk, low-reward option. Not smart.
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:45 pm

thejusman1 wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
thejusman1 wrote:Oh yes, forgive me, he logged 302 ABs last year. That makes him a verifiable stud veteran for sure. There's no rookie adjustments to be made or anything, he's not a developing player with huge question marks attached to his productivity. Fact is, if he didn't play a full season's worth of games last year, I think it's pretty safe to assume he's pretty green, regardless of how strict you want to interpret the phrase "rookie."



A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the major leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a major league club or clubs during the period of a 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service).



:-?


Geez, you guys are anal about definitions. Go ahead and trade for Carlos Gonzalez for your playoff stretch run and into the playoffs. Let me know how that works out for you. The point I was trying to make is that an unproven batter who has played less than the full season last year while batting .242, and only has 171 ABs this year is an unreliable, unproven, green, "rookie" option. Think of it like relying on Scherzer or Price for the stretch-run. You can spout all you want about the exact definitions of "rookie" players, bring up smart-mouthed responses quoting MLB, but I don't think there's any argument in saying Carlos Gonzales is a very green, unproven, and risky option, and to have traded anything of value to acquire him is not a wise fantasy move. In my book, his overall inexperience makes him a rookie, no different than the other mid-season call-ups last year, and like the others, more inclined to be a bust than a boom.

But, nah, since he's played over the 45 days on an MLB roster, he's not a rookie at all. %-6


ahh...so like Ryan Braun a few years ago...i hope no teams relied on him :-°
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:08 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
thejusman1 wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:




:-?


Geez, you guys are anal about definitions. Go ahead and trade for Carlos Gonzalez for your playoff stretch run and into the playoffs. Let me know how that works out for you. The point I was trying to make is that an unproven batter who has played less than the full season last year while batting .242, and only has 171 ABs this year is an unreliable, unproven, green, "rookie" option. Think of it like relying on Scherzer or Price for the stretch-run. You can spout all you want about the exact definitions of "rookie" players, bring up smart-mouthed responses quoting MLB, but I don't think there's any argument in saying Carlos Gonzales is a very green, unproven, and risky option, and to have traded anything of value to acquire him is not a wise fantasy move. In my book, his overall inexperience makes him a rookie, no different than the other mid-season call-ups last year, and like the others, more inclined to be a bust than a boom.

But, nah, since he's played over the 45 days on an MLB roster, he's not a rookie at all. %-6


ahh...so like Ryan Braun a few years ago...i hope no teams relied on him :-°


Hey, I'm Dan Lambskin, let me bring up another example that isn't applicable because Braun played over 113 games, logging in 450+ ABs in his "rookie year," and CRUSHED the ball and has gone on to become an everyday, franchise, elite slugger, whereas Carlos Gonzales had a very forgettable 302 AB debut last year, and has logged less than 175ABs this year. There are literally hundreds of examples of hot-hand rookies streaking for a few weeks that never amount to anything more than a backup/utility player. If you want to pay to acquire that via trade, be my guest. If you want to thrust that player into your playoff lineups, I hope I'm facing you that week. But selective memory of the very few breakout players who make a significant impact their rookie year is ignoring the overwhelming statistical evidence pointing in the opposite direction.

Here's a more illustrative example:
Chris Davis, 295AB's last year, .285-51-17-55, taken around the 5th-6th round in this year's drafts, even though his K:BB ratio was very poor, and you can still grab a lot of proven, veteran talent in that round. He's the most hyped bust of 2009, and the FA is littered with such examples.
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Re: Carlos Gonzalez, OF COL

Postby acsguitar » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:19 pm

How did this get so off topic
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