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yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

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yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:31 am

it shows lowe at 902 overall , hamels at 882, shields at 757 etc. these players haven't been the best but they can't be THAT bad to get a ranking near the 1000th.? derek lowe has 11 wins too. what's going on?
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby Thursday » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:05 am

I noticed that a bit earlier too. Then I realized it's Yahoo.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:10 am

i hope genie takes a look at this, it is becoming very hard to trade away some of my pitchers because even top 50 starters have rankings near 1000. just great, as trade deadline approaches, the ranks get all messed up and SPs losing their trade value! :-C
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby Cobra_Kai » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 am

I noticed this last night - Jon Lester is ranked WAY low right now (especially for the last month), but I think Yahoo gives more value to certain categories. For instance, I think wins carry a huge amount in their ranking algorithim, while ratios and Ks don't so much. It's weird.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:43 am

no way this is accurate, i don't think this is how it's supposed to be. take a look at pitchers sorted by o-rank and you'll see top 50 pitchers near the 1000th rank which makes no sense.

this has got to be a recent change, it sure wasn't like this before.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby jackie hayes » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:50 pm

Yahoo rankings have seemed unreliable all year.

Neftali Feliz is now ranked #257 among all players. (Overall ranking, not average.) As rough as Billingsley's been lately, his 11 W, 140 Ks, 3.82 era, and 1.28 whip rank below someone with 0 W and 4 Ks? Come on... And Garza, and Sabathia.

If you look at the rankings, the middle is a bunch of pitchers who haven't thrown at all this year. How would I be better off with zero innings than with Shields's 6/105/3.75/1.30, or even Lannan's 7/58/3.41/1.31?
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:14 pm

i hate the yahoo rankings, IMO theyve always been a joke.
2 of the worst things i see are O-Rank and % Owned, because those are the 2 things that show up first in a trade. some people that play yahoo fantasy baseball arnt all that knowledgeable and rely heavily on those 2 things to value a trade. even if i propose a trade that is good/close i get a reply back that its not even close because theyre player has a better O-Rank and % Owned.
% Owned is so useless to show because there are numerous leagues where people havnt paid attention from even day 1, let alone those who quit early/mid season because their teams sucks. i can understand having % Owned in there, but i dont think it needs to be on the first page in a trade proposal. it could be one of the things you have to click to see atleast.
i think yahoo rankings use wins too greatly to value the pitchers.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:00 pm

i remember recently genie tweaked how the system ranks pitchers. maybe something got overlooked in the process.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:27 pm

Here is what I can tell you...

- We do not weigh certain categories more heavily. People here keep suggesting that, and I keep trying to clear that up.

- There has only been one change to the ranking algorithm this year. In the past, we were doing silly things with pitchers that had pitched very few innings. If they were pitching really poorly in few innings (cough... Chien Ming Wang... cough...), they were getting artificially bumped up, and if they were pitching really well in few innings it might artificially bump them down (this was happening to Trevor Hoffman when he came off his injury, for example).

- I'm not convinced that the main thing freaking people out is entirely wrong. There is a big cluster of pitchers in the middle of the rankings who are essentially of neutral value. Often these are guys who haven't pitched much/at all. Those guys don't help or hurt your ERA or WHIP. They have minimal impact on saves since very few guys get saves anyway. They hurt you in wins and strikeouts. There is definitely going to be a set of pitchers that actually hurt you, because their ERA and WHIP pulls you down more than their wins and K's (or saves) pull you up. Having seen the math behind this, I think people would be surprised at where that line is. I think people have a gut feeling that says, "But he's a starting rotation pitcher! He can't be worse than a guy who doesn't even pitch!" That's simply not true.

- That being said, I think there is a very sneaky problem going on in the rankings right now. I can't go into much detail, but I think the end result is that it is putting too much weight on ERA and WHIP. Not by choice, because we do NOT intend to value any stat over any other stat, but as a strange derivative effect of how it is working. End result being that it is really hard to excel as a starting pitcher given the current rankings. I have a bug open to try to figure out if this is really the case and to work on it, I've just had bigger commitments for my time.
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Re: yahoo's season pitcher rankings messed up?

Postby fezzik » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:09 pm

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:Here is what I can tell you...

I think the end result is that it is putting too much weight on ERA and WHIP. Not by choice, because we do NOT intend to value any stat over any other stat, but as a strange derivative effect of how it is working. End result being that it is really hard to excel as a starting pitcher given the current rankings. I have a bug open to try to figure out if this is really the case and to work on it, I've just had bigger commitments for my time.


I'm not trying to be a naysayer, and I truly appreciate your posts and participation in this forum, but there is definitely something wrong with the rankings. Here are three good examples to check out. Cliff Lee, Wandy Rodriguez, and Justin Verlander.

C. Lee: 161IP, 8W, 113K, 3.02era, 1.27whip - Yahoo rank 216...other websites rank him in the top 100 (80-95) using the same scoring setup...

W. Rodriguez: 136.2IP, 10W, 128K, 2.63era, 1.21whip - Yahoo rank 78...other websites have him around 40 using the same 5x5 default yahoo setup.

Verlander: 153.1IP, 12W, 180K, 3.29era, 1.17whip - Yahoo rank 76...other websites have him in the top 20 with the same scoring setup...which is where he should be with those numbers.

Just glancing at Verlander's numbers and Wandy's numbers, I think it's clear that Verlander should be ranked significantly ahead of Wandy...yet they are ranked almost equally by yahoo. :-?

I don't know exactly what's wrong with the algorithm, but there seems to be something askew. ;-D
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