Abused Pitcher Arms - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Abused Pitcher Arms

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby Zito is God » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:13 pm

As I sit here in shock as the Tigers send out Verlander to pitch the 8th after he is already at 110 pitches, I am curious as to who gets abused the most? Not innings, but rather pitches, and how you think this will affect their career?
Image

Sean Tracey has my apologies, we all know Ozzie Guillen is an idiot. I'm rooting for you!
Zito is God
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 4169
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Secretly advising Cashman.

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby Tavish » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:20 pm

Lincecum had the most pitches per start last year. He is down to 4th so far this season behind Verlander, Jiminez, and Gallardo.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=467581
Image

Bury me a Royal.
Tavish
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterWeb Supporter
Posts: 11070
(Past Year: 25)
Joined: 3 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby J35J » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:26 pm

So Gallardo comes back from pretty much a whole year off and he's 3rd......that doesn't seem smart. :-?
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby mblax10 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:42 pm

Not all pitch counts are created eqaul. Verlander throwing 119 pitches over 8 IP is most likely not as bad as when somebody like Cueto throws 105 pitches over 4 IP.

100 is also an arbitrary number. Recently, some experts suggested the pitch count to start worrying about may be closer to 110. Something like this is very hard to quantify with much certainty affect over the long and short term.
mblax10
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 422
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby J35J » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:46 pm

mblax10 wrote:...may be closer to 110.


I agree much more with that number as well.

Not only are all pitch counts not created equal...not all pitchers are created equal. Some guys tire sooner than others which means they'll throw more pitches when they are worn down. Some pitchers throw much more max effort while others are more fluid and easy. Then you have some pitchers who throw a vast majority of fastballs while others throw many more curves and or sliders....etc, etc, etc.
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby Padres Fan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:38 pm

I think pitch counts are what are causing problems, weseem to have more shoulder and elbow injuries with pitchers limited on counts and then have to go over counts due to taxed bullpens, Nolan Rayn is right when he says pitch counts don't belong in baseball.
Padres Fan
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2050
Joined: 6 Mar 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Salt Lake City/San Diego

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby Yoda » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:08 am

mblax10 wrote:Not all pitch counts are created eqaul. Verlander throwing 119 pitches over 8 IP is most likely not as bad as when somebody like Cueto throws 105 pitches over 4 IP.

100 is also an arbitrary number. Recently, some experts suggested the pitch count to start worrying about may be closer to 110. Something like this is very hard to quantify with much certainty affect over the long and short term.


+1

Pitching under pressure and/or while tired puts much more stress on your arm. As JJ also mentioned, not everyone is created equal and not everyone has the same repertoire. That being said, there needs to be a better way of tracking pitcher abuse based on these facts.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby CadensDad » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:51 pm

Yea, I've heard some stories that in the Negro leagues some of those guys where tossing 150+ a day and pitching every other day. Everyone is made different.
Image

“Never argue with a idiot, because first they will bring you down to their level. Then beat you with experience.”
CadensDad
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5977
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby thejusman1 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:35 pm

What are the Brewers doing to Yovani Gallardo? After pitching only 24 innings last year, he's up to 175.1 this year. He ranks 9th out of all pitchers in the MLB in pitches thrown, coming in at 3,018. He threw 385 the year before, and 1771 his rookie year. This has disaster written all over it. True, the Blue Crew is now trying to limit his starts, but the damage has been done. Based on his performance this year, Gallardo will undoubtedly be drafted in the early rounds next year as a #1 or #2 SP, well within the Top 20. I don't think he's even going to finish close to the Top 50.
http://slippingoffaledge.wordpress.com/ - A blog for political rants, fantasy sports, and thoughts from my twisted mind. Warning: Not for children.
thejusman1
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2814
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Abused Pitcher Arms

Postby J35J » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:36 pm

thejusman1 wrote:What are the Brewers doing to Yovani Gallardo? After pitching only 24 innings last year, he's up to 175.1 this year. He ranks 9th out of all pitchers in the MLB in pitches thrown, coming in at 3,018. He threw 385 the year before, and 1771 his rookie year. This has disaster written all over it. True, the Blue Crew is now trying to limit his starts, but the damage has been done. Based on his performance this year, Gallardo will undoubtedly be drafted in the early rounds next year as a #1 or #2 SP, well within the Top 20. I don't think he's even going to finish close to the Top 50.


This is why I didn't draft him in any of my leagues and figured he was overrated coming into the year. I just didn't think he would, or should, pitch alot more than 175innings and if he did how effective would he be in doing so?

I had him down for...
180IP
13W
3.55ERA
1.25WHIP
165SO

...his strike out totals somewhat suprise me but otherwise he's been pretty much where I expected. And the way they are throwing him out there I'll likely steer clear of him next year as well.
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Oct. 24
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact