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Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby AquaMan2342 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:45 am

Bloody Sox wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:What's so funny? He's right.

Agreed

Well, if that is the case (I don't agree), then that means that the Yankees were the dominant favorites before the trade deadline and that the Rays were about to blow past Boston. The Red Sox added Victor Martinez, the Yankees added Jerry Hairston Jr., and the Rays added no one. The notion that the Red Sox' chances in the division were lessened (or unchanged) at the trade deadline makes zero sense.


It makes complete sense because they were tied to Halladay more than almost any other team besides Philadelphia. Given they are a large market team that usually seems to get what they want, the fact they weren't able to add a very necessary piece only emboldens the perception that they can't win the division without another starter.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby Padres Fan » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:11 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
Bloody Sox wrote:
ayebatter wrote:Agreed

Well, if that is the case (I don't agree), then that means that the Yankees were the dominant favorites before the trade deadline and that the Rays were about to blow past Boston. The Red Sox added Victor Martinez, the Yankees added Jerry Hairston Jr., and the Rays added no one. The notion that the Red Sox' chances in the division were lessened (or unchanged) at the trade deadline makes zero sense.


It makes complete sense because they were tied to Halladay more than almost any other team besides Philadelphia. Given they are a large market team that usually seems to get what they want, the fact they weren't able to add a very necessary piece only emboldens the perception that they can't win the division without another starter.



It make sense to me, the Jays were probably asking for Bucholz/Bard/Anderson plus more for Halladay and the Sox were right not to let them go for a aging pitcher, I am not even a Sox or Yankees fan, hell not even a fan of any team in the AL East, but I find the Sox more superior than the Yankees since they develop talent, and do not go out and by players and leave their minor leagues in ruin, so when their big players get hurt they don'y have anyone good down on the farm to replace them, the one good thing I can say about the Yankees at this point is they got a good Utiliy IF/Of for nothing.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby StlSluggers » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:13 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:You didn't mention the DeRosa trade, which has already paid off dividends.


That is a trade that doesn't have as obvious a conclusion as the Holliday one IMO.

DeRosa is a FA after '09 and is 35 in February next year.
Cleveland could potentially have got themselves an elite 8th/9th innings package for a couple of months of DeRosa. Emphasis on potentially. Perez certainly has big Ks in his arm, and Todd looks excellent.

I didn't mention this one because it is incomplete IMO. ;-D

Then let me help you out:

Perez has a knack for giving up big hits at bad times.

I'm glad he's gone, and the fact that we got DeRosa stunned me.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby AussieDodger » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:25 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:You didn't mention the DeRosa trade, which has already paid off dividends.


That is a trade that doesn't have as obvious a conclusion as the Holliday one IMO.

DeRosa is a FA after '09 and is 35 in February next year.
Cleveland could potentially have got themselves an elite 8th/9th innings package for a couple of months of DeRosa. Emphasis on potentially. Perez certainly has big Ks in his arm, and Todd looks excellent.

I didn't mention this one because it is incomplete IMO. ;-D

Then let me help you out:

Perez has a knack for giving up big hits at bad times.

I'm glad he's gone, and the fact that we got DeRosa stunned me.



He's also 23 and has a major league K/9 of 10, and a ridiculous 11 this season.

Obviously some drunken derelict decided to throw him in at the deep end before he was ready, and when he predictably couldn't handle it they jettisoned him. :-? ;-7

Stupid move, but then this is La Russa + rookies we're talking about. B-)
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby Padres Fan » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:26 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:You didn't mention the DeRosa trade, which has already paid off dividends.


That is a trade that doesn't have as obvious a conclusion as the Holliday one IMO.

DeRosa is a FA after '09 and is 35 in February next year.
Cleveland could potentially have got themselves an elite 8th/9th innings package for a couple of months of DeRosa. Emphasis on potentially. Perez certainly has big Ks in his arm, and Todd looks excellent.

I didn't mention this one because it is incomplete IMO. ;-D

Then let me help you out:

Perez has a knack for giving up big hits at bad times.

I'm glad he's gone, and the fact that we got DeRosa stunned me.


Wow a jaded Cards fan, Perez is still young and developing, he has a better upside than Motte does, and rarely has there been pitchers who wasn't rough around the edges their first few easons in th bigs, look how long it took Carpenter to become the great pitcher he is, his first several years in Toronto were subpar.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby Bloody Sox » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:47 pm

Yoda wrote:
Bloody Sox wrote:Well, if that is the case (I don't agree), then that means that the Yankees were the dominant favorites before the trade deadline and that the Rays were about to blow past Boston. The Red Sox added Victor Martinez, the Yankees added Jerry Hairston Jr., and the Rays added no one. The notion that the Red Sox' chances in the division were lessened (or unchanged) at the trade deadline makes zero sense.

They still have a huge hole at SS and a ton of questions in the rotation outside of Beckett. Lester's solid but he is getting hit this year.

I don't disagree at all with the question marks - but this thread is about who won/lost at the trade deadline. My only point is that the Red Sox clearly improved more (by quite a bit) than the Yankees or Rays at the deadline, so it is completely illogical to say that the Yankees have now become the clear frontrunners based on the trade deadline moves. And while I concede the point that someone else made that Martinez on a game by game basis doesn't drastically improve the Sox lineup (because it was pretty good already), not having to depend as heavily on Tek and Lowell is a huge advantage over the course of the rest of the season.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby Padres Fan » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:14 pm

You also have to look at the fact that the Red Sox best hitters tend to still play well in the playoffs, whereas AROD disappears come playoff time
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby Bloody Sox » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Padres Fan wrote:You also have to look at the fact that the Red Sox best hitters tend to still play well in the playoffs, whereas AROD disappears come playoff time

Oh boy... now you've done it. :-)
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby RAmst23 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:16 pm

Padres Fan wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
That is a trade that doesn't have as obvious a conclusion as the Holliday one IMO.

DeRosa is a FA after '09 and is 35 in February next year.
Cleveland could potentially have got themselves an elite 8th/9th innings package for a couple of months of DeRosa. Emphasis on potentially. Perez certainly has big Ks in his arm, and Todd looks excellent.

I didn't mention this one because it is incomplete IMO. ;-D

Then let me help you out:

Perez has a knack for giving up big hits at bad times.

I'm glad he's gone, and the fact that we got DeRosa stunned me.


Wow a jaded Cards fan, Perez is still young and developing, he has a better upside than Motte does, and rarely has there been pitchers who wasn't rough around the edges their first few easons in th bigs, look how long it took Carpenter to become the great pitcher he is, his first several years in Toronto were subpar.


And young RPs with great stuff and a lack of command aren't uncommon. DeRosa significantly helps the Card's offense by fixing a glaring hole at 3B. Also, not sure what the point of bringing Carpenter into the discussion is. Yes, there have been young pitchers who struggled early than succeeded, and there have been young pitchers who have struggled and then struggled some more. Pointless to bring up.
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Re: Winners/Losers of "Trade Wars"

Postby StlSluggers » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:21 pm

Padres Fan wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Then let me help you out:

Perez has a knack for giving up big hits at bad times.

I'm glad he's gone, and the fact that we got DeRosa stunned me.


Wow a jaded Cards fan, Perez is still young and developing, he has a better upside than Motte does, and rarely has there been pitchers who wasn't rough around the edges their first few easons in th bigs, look how long it took Carpenter to become the great pitcher he is, his first several years in Toronto were subpar.

Even if he does become a good reliever after a "few seasons in the bigs," it's still a great trade.
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