So I've been trying to move Halladay in my keeper league for a stud hitter I can carry over to 2010. I've got a bunch of middle of the road keepers that I am comfortable keeping, but only so many spots. We keep 10 and I've got 5 no-brainers and a list of 10-15 other guys who are possibles, ranging from Shin Soo Choo to Gordan Beckham and Matt Garza to Joakim Soria.
So I've been shopping Halladay around, trying to package something with him even, to get a stud hitter to add to my keeper list as my offense has really been holding me back this year. My last straw just got rejected which was Halladay and Kendry Morales for Ryan Braun with the line "I value hitters more than pitchers".
Call me crazy, but I really don't get this line of thinking that I'm running into from everybody I talk to. Maybe I'm the idiot, but in a 5x5 league the 5 pitching categories, and 4 that a stud starter contributes positively to, count just the same as a stud hitter who is good in 4 categories of 5. I never thought it would be so hard to trade Roy freaking Halladay for a hitter worthy of a year-in year-out top 5 starting pitcher and Cy Young contender. Am I completely off in my value assessment of Halladay or is my league just unwilling to trade top tier talent for top tier talent? The guy I'm trying to get Braun from asked in a roundabout way if I would throw Carl Crawford in .
The "I value hitters more than pitchers" comment is a little odd, I suppose. Though, I wouldn't have made that trade either, if I were him. But my response would have been something like, "I value guys with more value more than guys with less value."
Kind of hard to trade for a 1st round player in a keeper league, unless you're giving up a 1st round player, or maybe (2) 2nd's. Although it might happen if 'ONLY' Halladay would put the other team in 1st place for the year.
Pitchers get hurt more Pitchers have off years more Pitchers have 3 stats that are highly random (Ks aren't) Pitchers are easier to play matchups with Pitchers only contribute 4 stats max and most are only sure things for 3.
To be honest I feel I can be competitive in pitching with random guys off the FA list in most leagues, maybe not win the cats but be competitive, hitting there is no chance. Look at the top 50 hitters and top 50 pitchers before the season for each of the past 5 years, you'll see the pitchers don't repeat nearly as much as the hitters. Pitchers are just all around riskier.
People value stud hitters over stud pitchers because (and I agree) top 10 hitters seem to be more reliable than top 10 pitchers. Hitters aren't immune to slump years, but the top hitters usually stay the same year to year whereas the top pitchers fluctuate a bit more.
Plus, if a stud hitter hits a homer, he helps in 4 categories. If a stud pitcher pitches great, he's still reliant on the rest of his team to score runs for the win and can potentially only contribute in 3 categories. Usually has to rely on the bullpen to get the win too.
In general, a top hitter is more valuable than a top pitcher for much of what has been said. In short, a top pitcher is probably more susceptible to dips in performance year to year than a hitter can. It's also easier to replace pitching to a certain extent with cheaper alternatives (i.e. Edwin Jackson, Joel Pineiro).
Also, in the case of your keeper league trade, Braun would supposedly have more value, given his age and his upside. FWIW, Halladay is consistently one of the top-ranked pitchers for abuse points year in and year out and while he has proven he can take on a hefty workload year in and year out, he does remain at some risk for either injury or a lag in performance.
I wouldn't really consider Halladay/Crawford for Braun in a keeper as an insulting offer, I'd probably need that to deal Braun, a 26 year old who looks like he'll hit 35 homers every year for at least 7 years. Then again, I never draft Crawford. Either way, in fantasy baseball, not real life, you don't deal those first round young stud bats in a keeper league unless the offer is lopsided in your favor to do it. Keepers are always about trying to stockpile the best young talent, it's rarely ever worth trading down. Halladay is great but like Ender already covered, a starter's real life value doesn't carry over to fantasy baseball.
Ender wrote:Pitchers get hurt more Pitchers have off years more Pitchers have 3 stats that are highly random (Ks aren't) Pitchers are easier to play matchups with Pitchers only contribute 4 stats max and most are only sure things for 3.
To be honest I feel I can be competitive in pitching with random guys off the FA list in most leagues, maybe not win the cats but be competitive, hitting there is no chance. Look at the top 50 hitters and top 50 pitchers before the season for each of the past 5 years, you'll see the pitchers don't repeat nearly as much as the hitters. Pitchers are just all around riskier.
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by Shaffe » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:18 pm 
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