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Matt Holliday Trade thread

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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:12 am

jealousblues wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I'm torn.


So are GM Mozeliak and that piece of scum La Russa.
But they are torn in a place that won't let them sit down for a while by this deal ;-7


oh, come on an As fan ripping other teams on trades (because they know its the only time they can "win")

whats it matter what prospects you get if it never amounts to anything?


}:-) }:-)

So what non-free agent 3B do you guys have for 2010? :-? (Glaus free agent and hurt, DeRosa free agent and old, Kee-razy Khalil free agent)
I thought so. :-D

Also, there will be an insane bidding threesome between NYY, LAA and STL for Holliday in the off season, which you will lose.

Our new and future 3B may have a fat backside, but i don't see any A's fans complaining ;-D ;-D ;-D
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby jealousblues » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:22 am

we wont lose it if we get him to stay like McGwire, Rolen and Edmonds, all of whom IIRC bypassed FA to stay here...
as did Lohse (another Boras client)

we have David Freese and Allen Craig, Joe Mather may be able to fill in too
not fantastic but could be serviceable under the right conditions.


You also neglect we will have a lot of money coming off the books at the end of the year
such as 12mil for Glaus, 6 mil for Greene, and 4 mil we are paying for Adam Kennedy thats 22 million right there that we wont be bringing back and is free.

and as of the start of the year our payroll was down a bit from its height (about 10 mil) so I would say we (possibly) have 30 mil there to work with if we want.

So its not as bad as you make it out to be.


you dont have to knock someone elses team just to prop up your opinion of your last place team.
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:03 am

The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby KCollins1304 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:05 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.


Pujols is signed through 2011 isn't he?
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:18 am

KCollins1304 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.


Pujols is signed through 2011 isn't he?


Yes. $16 million in 2010 and and $16 million option for 2011.
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby JTWood » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:29 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

Yeah, I didn't care for it, but I've come to the mindset that I might as well be glad for it while he's here.

Still, I would like to have seen a lesser hitter and a pitcher instead of a good hitter and no pitcher (yet).
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby jealousblues » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:41 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.




for what its worth...ah, ill just post the text. this is from Bernie Miklasz' forum

Strauss was just on Bernie's show and said he believes the Cardinals are very serious about extending Holliday to make him part of the team's core for the next five to six years.

Said on a scale of 1-10 about how serious they will try to make a push for him, he would put at ten and a half.

Said will try to lock him him maybe sometime in September after getting him in the clubhouse and being greeted by the fans.

Put that with DeWitt's words from a couple days ago and it is exciting for Holliday fans.


Quote
"We're not looking at this as a one-year deal, I assure you," DeWitt said.


Quote
"That remains to be seen," DeWitt said Saturday. "It's one of the risk elements of the deal. If we are unable to re-sign him, we will have received two months (from Holliday) for three prospects. That's the risk we take. It's what we've done before and it's worked out."


and Bernie actually posted this fwiw:

No one of any importance in the organization was comfortable with the idea of him playing third at the major-league level.

LF wasn't going to be the solution, either.

Given that he's a 1B and DH, he probably had less value to the Cardinals than most teams.

-B
________


so it looks like he wasnt going to get a shot here because he was blocked and it does look like the cards are going to try to pull the McGwire/Edmonds/Rolen on Holliday so all isnt necessarily lost.

It hurts to lose Wallace but we have no idea how he is going to pan out (I hope he does, I was excited to see him play...but I was also excited about Daric Barton)

another thing we have going for us is Mark McGwire is apparently a mentor to him and is supposedly lobbying for him to stay here
then you have to take into account how miserable he was in Oakland (which apparently was a bad baseball environment...?) and hopefully he likes it here, but him resigning is far from certain.
Though I think if we offer arb at least we get picks
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.


It seems like a short-sighted deal to me, for the Cardinals.
Kinda reeks of "let's save our jobs because everyone has forgotten 2006 already" IMO.

They could potentially end up with no decent LF or 3B going into next year. Talking about signing Holliday long-term is all nice and warm fuzzy creating, but Boras MUST know that Vlad, Damon and Matsui are free agents and either NYY or LAA will pay him a LOT of money.
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:43 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Giving up a cost controlled Wallace for 2 months or Holliday is a bad deal. Maybe it works out and Holliday is the difference this year but that doesn't make a it a good deal, it just means the Cards got lucky.

I pray to god they take that money coming off the books and sign Pujols to an extension. That should be the number one priority this offseason before going after Holliday or a 3B.


It seems like a short-sighted deal to me, for the Cardinals.
Kinda reeks of "let's save our jobs because everyone has forgotten 2006 already" IMO.

They could potentially end up with no decent LF or 3B going into next year. Talking about signing Holliday long-term is all nice and warm fuzzy creating, but Boras MUST know that Vlad, Damon and Matsui are free agents and either NYY or LAA will pay him a LOT of money.


It is absolutely a short-sighted move but I don't think it is a panic move to save their jobs. I think it is a move to placate Pujols. They go to Pujols in the off-season for an extension saying that they did everything they could to put a winner on the field and promise to do so in the future. It is a calculated risk to make the playoffs this year and give Pujols the incentive to sign.
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Re: Matt Holliday Trade thread

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:27 am

And I still think they're priming the club for sale.
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