i was thinking of countering with victornio, cain and edwin jackson or washburn for lester hawpe. what do you guys think of that and which one should i take? im just worried about cains production in the future. also, with bj upton+victorino killing my power when i lose hawpe
by fantasysportsguy1210 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:56 pm
I do this deal. If you can get EJax, do that. But I would do this deal as is. No need to worry too much about your power with Pujols, Manny, Kinsler, and some pop out of your SS position. If Hawpe fell off the map tomorrow, I don't think anyone would be surprised. It's a good sell high on him.
i agree id do the deal as is now or if you could somehow get EJax in the deal... in total agreement with the fact that is Hawpe bottomed out right now it would be no great surprise i think hes still playing somewhat over his head, and youd be getting a very high quality OFer who is very dependable back in the Flyin Hawaiian, and to top it i think Cain+Jimenez or Cain+EJax trumps Lester straight up by alot...
make the deal, as the value is too much to ignore.
As for hawpe, he's being underrated in this thread. hits in a great hitters park?. check. hits cleanup or 5th in a good lineup?. check. Is not a liability against lefties as a LHB? check(.878 OPS this year following an .826 OPS last year). Hits well away from Coors? check(.943 OPS this year, .864 last year, and .830 the year before). He's not going to fall off the map anytime soon, as the guy can flat hit.
Put it this way, what is the difference between hawpe and nick markakis in a redraft league? The answer is perception. Fantasy owners in general perceive Markakis as a stud but hawpe is considered a guy that you deal to get a stud. The truth is hawpe is going to provide equal or better production in comparison to Markakis by the time the season ends.
DVauthrin wrote:make the deal, as the value is too much to ignore.
As for hawpe, he's being underrated in this thread. hits in a great hitters park?. check. hits cleanup or 5th in a good lineup?. check. Is not a liability against lefties as a LHB? check(.878 OPS this year following an .826 OPS last year). Hits well away from Coors? check(.943 OPS this year, .864 last year, and .830 the year before). He's not going to fall off the map anytime soon, as the guy can flat hit.
Put it this way, what is the difference between hawpe and nick markakis in a redraft league? The answer is perception. Fantasy owners in general perceive Markakis as a stud but hawpe is considered a guy that you deal to get a stud. The truth is hawpe is going to provide equal or better production in comparison to Markakis by the time the season ends.
ok he may or may not be... but show me where his consistancy is? First full season in '06 bats in 84, 2nd full season bats in 116, 3rd full season bats in 85, this year is on pace for that '07 type year of 110-120 rbi, so as his background shows next year you are looking at a guy that will be lucky to reach 85 RBI correct?... not to mention he has yeah to score more then 80 runs, and throwing out his breakout year in '07 in both '06 and '08 he scored 67 and 69 respectively... the guy doesn't steal bases and this .318 average is about 20-30 points above his career average... don't bring the whole 'hitters park' into the euqation, he plays half at home and half on the road, and if you want to use that excuse look at the stats more closely, career he has 3 more homers on the road, average only drops 5 points, rbi drops 15-20 so id say coors isn't the big ticket for Hawpe as it is for alot of hitters... btw check out career stats after the all star break, youd be surprised seens how his average drops those 20+ points and he tends to strikeout at a higher rate... so yeah i think i would definitley like Victoriano a bit more in this situation...
DVauthrin wrote:make the deal, as the value is too much to ignore.
As for hawpe, he's being underrated in this thread. hits in a great hitters park?. check. hits cleanup or 5th in a good lineup?. check. Is not a liability against lefties as a LHB? check(.878 OPS this year following an .826 OPS last year). Hits well away from Coors? check(.943 OPS this year, .864 last year, and .830 the year before). He's not going to fall off the map anytime soon, as the guy can flat hit.
Put it this way, what is the difference between hawpe and nick markakis in a redraft league? The answer is perception. Fantasy owners in general perceive Markakis as a stud but hawpe is considered a guy that you deal to get a stud. The truth is hawpe is going to provide equal or better production in comparison to Markakis by the time the season ends.
ok he may or may not be... but show me where his consistancy is? First full season in '06 bats in 84, 2nd full season bats in 116, 3rd full season bats in 85, this year is on pace for that '07 type year of 110-120 rbi, so as his background shows next year you are looking at a guy that will be lucky to reach 85 RBI correct?... not to mention he has yeah to score more then 80 runs, and throwing out his breakout year in '07 in both '06 and '08 he scored 67 and 69 respectively... the guy doesn't steal bases and this .318 average is about 20-30 points above his career average... don't bring the whole 'hitters park' into the euqation, he plays half at home and half on the road, and if you want to use that excuse look at the stats more closely, career he has 3 more homers on the road, average only drops 5 points, rbi drops 15-20 so id say coors isn't the big ticket for Hawpe as it is for alot of hitters... btw check out career stats after the all star break, youd be surprised seens how his average drops those 20+ points and he tends to strikeout at a higher rate... so yeah i think i would definitley like Victoriano a bit more in this situation...
I value hawpe and victorino as equals, for what its worth. Also brad hawpe missed 24 games due to injury last year, and his runs/rbi were also negatively affected by batting 6th for half of his at bats. In 2007, he got all of his at bats in the 6 hole, and was being platooned at times vs lefties. Therefore his rbi's were great, but his run total was low because you are asking the 7th and 8th place hitters in the lineup to drive him home. In 2006, again half of his at bats came batting 6th(he batted 5th the other at bats) and he wasn't playing most games vs lefties. thus he wasn't getting enough playing time to have 90-100 runs and 90-100 rbi's.
What changed this year is he is batting cleanup more often than not in a good lineup after the departure of holliday. That is the big reason for the runs/rbi spike so far this year. As far as your contention he is worse after the break, he hit .319 with a .930 OPS after the break last year. He also hits both lefties and righties well. Furthermore, anyone that plays half their games in coors field gets a value boost because of the park. The point about the home and away splits wasn't that anyways. Last year, everyone made a huge deal about matt holliday being a coors field product. Hawpe is just as good away from coors as he is at home. That plus his L/R splits tells me the dude can flat hit, no matter the pitcher or the park.
Also, even if his average drops to .290, that's still very good.
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by kickureface » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:55 pm 
