Bill James on PEDs - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Bill James on PEDs

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby mweir145 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:35 pm

He takes quite an interesting take on the subject (Cooperstown and the ‘Roids), and his conclusion is diametric to what you would expect from the most recognized baseball historian of our generation.

To me it was exactly the kind of article you'd expect from somebody who understands and knows the history of baseball.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby mweir145 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:40 pm

My prevailing thought here has always been that in 50 years there will be a wing in the HOF for the outed players from the steroid era. I sincerely hope that society will always recognize the moral right and never group cheaters with those who held a higher standard.

lol. :-b

And there's that mention of a "steroid era" again.
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby B-Chad » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:47 pm

I'm glad to see some logical people posting on the steroid subject in this thread. I'm sick of the "moral" argument. Everyone has different morals, and the holier then though looking down on players/people statements infuriate me to no end (hot4tx and the other cafe user making the comparison to using meth/crack/etc. I'm talking about you two). The fact is, players have been looking to gain an edge for years using spit balls, hiding pine tar on their hands/hats, sandpaper, cork, greenies, etc. Nolan Ryan used to plunk hitters who tried to drag bunt for hits on him. He also used to plunk hitters who crowded the plate in order to "establish in the inside half of the plate." Today, he'd be ejected for this. Should we review his career accomplishments because of changes to the way the game is played today? Should he have an asterik placed next to his career totals because his performance was likely "enhanced" by the benefit of not getting run from games for hitting batters and working the inner half of the plate? Finally, if I hear one more wild an inaccurate statement/generalization that states that those who aren't infuriated by steroid use are pro rape, drug use, murder, etc. I may snap. Those wild generalizations are the type of thing children or people with the intelligence of a teen would argue. It is laughable and frustrating at the same time...
Image]
B-Chad
General Manager
General Manager

EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 2213
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby StlSluggers » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:29 pm

B-Chad wrote:I'm glad to see some logical people posting on the steroid subject in this thread. I'm sick of the "moral" argument. Everyone has different morals, and the holier then though looking down on players/people statements infuriate me to no end

And I'm sick of people being sick of the moral argument!

Let's debate this hotly for the next few days in a venue where we retain total anonymity!!! !+)
StlSluggers
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterWeb Supporter
Posts: 14716
Joined: 24 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Parking in the gov't bldg @ 7th and Pine. It's only $3.00 on game day!

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby B-Chad » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:58 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
B-Chad wrote:I'm glad to see some logical people posting on the steroid subject in this thread. I'm sick of the "moral" argument. Everyone has different morals, and the holier then though looking down on players/people statements infuriate me to no end

And I'm sick of people being sick of the moral argument!

Let's debate this hotly for the next few days in a venue where we retain total anonymity!!! !+)


I mean we all clearly have so many other options then to debate this hotly in total anonymity on the cafe threads right? :-S Seriously, the moral argument is a joke. All moral arguments are a joke, we have people shouting at the top of their longs that it is immoral that church is not built into the education system, and people stating that gambling and drinking are immoral activities. I think none of the above stated actions are immoral, that is my moral stance, others are different. The moral argument is really just a shield for those with no argument. I have no problem with arguments that steroids were illegal, and therefore the usage should be viewed negatively, legality is a reasonable argument. Morality, ha
Image]
B-Chad
General Manager
General Manager

EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 2213
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby JTWood » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:00 am

Well, not to get too philosophical, but that's a dangerous line of logic. At extremes, a stance against murder is simply a convenient moral stance contrived by the weak to keep the strong from killing them and taking their stuff. There is such a thing as good morality.
Image
JTWood
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Unincorporated Heaven

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby B-Chad » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:24 am

JTWood wrote:Well, not to get too philosophical, but that's a dangerous line of logic. At extremes, a stance against murder is simply a convenient moral stance contrived by the weak to keep the strong from killing them and taking their stuff. There is such a thing as good morality.


That is true. I guess my stance completely against morality was a bit extreme, but at the same time, morality has so much grey area, such as the areas I alluded to. I just think the moral issue related to steroids is too grey for the "cut and dry" it is/was immoral to use steroids, and therefore all those crooked cheats don't deserve any credit for their stats. What about the players that have taken drugs that are similar to, or later decided to be steroids? As you can see, I just think the moral issue is a very weak argument, and I typically find and feel that the people calling into question the players "morals" that took steroids have no right to do so.
Image]
B-Chad
General Manager
General Manager

EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 2213
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby Chicago RedSox » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:16 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
hot4tx wrote:Bill James assertion that players on roids playing better into later years means steroids makes you younger and possibly in the future we'll all be on roids is like saying in the future we could all be taking meth to keep obesity down and take PCP because it makes you stronger. Well its possible that we could, but lets not allow illegal drug trafficking and use just because you think there's a chance it might be adoptable in some medical use "in the future".

Illegal drugs are illegal drugs and while players that took roids will deal with the consequences themselves later in life, the biggest problem was that as widespread as the use was it became harder to compete at a top level without roids. Not only harder for ML players, but for guys in the minors, college kids and even high school kids.

Testing ML players doesn't put an absolute stop to kids dying from roids, but its a step in the right direction. Bill James assertion that just because in the future we could have some type of steroid or testosterone that everyone takes like vitamins, that its ok that people illegally used drugs now and in the past is either him attempting to write an inflammatory BS article or an admission of complete idiocy on his part.

Either way I lost any respect I had for him as a journalist with that un-researched turd. JMHO.


1. Steroids are not illegal
2. There are many medical uses for steroids now


Federal law placed anabolic steroids in Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) as of February 27, 1991. The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine if this is an individual’s first drug offense. The maximum penalty for trafficking is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 if this is the individual’s first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double. While the above listed penalties are for federal offenses, individual states have also implemented fines and penalties for illegal use of anabolic steroids.
Play Ball
Chicago RedSox
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1436
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: SanDiego

Re: Bill James on PEDs

Postby Yoda » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:20 pm

Chicago RedSox wrote:Federal law placed anabolic steroids in Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) as of February 27, 1991. The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine if this is an individual’s first drug offense. The maximum penalty for trafficking is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 if this is the individual’s first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double. While the above listed penalties are for federal offenses, individual states have also implemented fines and penalties for illegal use of anabolic steroids.


That's great to know. And I'm sure that people with possession always get the maximum sentence.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Oct. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact