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I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

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I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby kaiser » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:42 pm

...is not working in professional baseball right now. He is a "third banana" on a sports radio morning show in Atlanta.

I know some people claim he was only the beneficiary of working with some of the best arms in the game, but I think the guy was responsible for a great portion of the success of guys like Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine.

Maybe he doesn't want to deal with the travel, schedule, etc. I don't know. But you can't tell me that there are 30 other guys who are better pitching coaches than Mazzone.

Just one man's opinion.
Last edited by kaiser on Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby JTWood » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:28 pm

I haven't looked at this in terrible detail, but I recall hearing that his time with the Orioles was less than inspiring.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:20 pm

kaiser wrote: I think the guy was responsible for a great portion of the success of guys like Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine.

Ah, the Phil Jackson Fallacy. Never gets old. :-)
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby kaiser » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:34 pm

Oh, I understand now. Because Phil Jackson was just "lucky" to be the head coach of teams that won the NBA championship,
and then won it again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.

It happens all the time. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Ten times.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 am

kaiser wrote:Oh, I understand now. Because Phil Jackson was just "lucky" to be the head coach of teams that won the NBA championship,
and then won it again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.

It happens all the time. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Ten times.


having the best player in the history of the game for 6 of them helps (i forgot how he did those 2 years without Jordan :-? ), and then having possibly the most dominant center in the history of the game with another superstar for 3 more helped quite a bit as well
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby dillpickle » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:10 am

Dan Lambskin wrote:
kaiser wrote:Oh, I understand now. Because Phil Jackson was just "lucky" to be the head coach of teams that won the NBA championship,
and then won it again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
And again.

It happens all the time. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Ten times.


having the best player in the history of the game for 6 of them helps (i forgot how he did those 2 years without Jordan :-? ), and then having possibly the most dominant center in the history of the game with another superstar for 3 more helped quite a bit as well



Ummmm...it's the NBA. No coaching is required. Simply roll the ball out and what ever team has the best athletes wins.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby nolanwood » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:38 am

Back on topic...

Here's an excellent writeup discussing the "Mazzone Effect":

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/20 ... _eff_1.php

When he left ATL I thought surely he'd have the same results with Baltimore (DCab, etc)... I agree, Kaiser - I find it odd that he's out of the game.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:29 pm

nolanwood wrote:Back on topic...

Here's an excellent writeup discussing the "Mazzone Effect":

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/20 ... _eff_1.php

When he left ATL I thought surely he'd have the same results with Baltimore (DCab, etc)... I agree, Kaiser - I find it odd that he's out of the game.


Doesn't the fact that he couldn't recreate the effect with a different team take something away for the "Mazzone Effect"?

I am pretty surprised he hasn't caught on somewhere as a pitching coach.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:43 pm

I think you have to take into account that Baltimore only gave him two years and then dumped him. What Mazzone did in Atlanta was built over a much longer period of time. I'm not saying that Mazzone is a pitching God who can trun any staff to gold... but when guys like John Smoltz, Greg Maddux and Tommy Glavine all name you as the person or one of the people primarily responsible for their success, it says something about your "effect" on pitchers.
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Re: I think it's amazing that Leo Mazzone...

Postby Ender » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:54 am

I don't really think he was in Baltimore long enough to judge him from it. I think he was probably a good pitching coach but I'd imagine he is overrated somewhat as well. Here is the big secret to being a good pitching coach, coach a team that values defense strongly and plays in a pitchers park and preferably in the NL and if you get to be really picky in the NL West~.
Last edited by Ender on Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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