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Ichiro and Pete Rose

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Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby Polar Bear » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:29 am

It is too bad Ichiro came over from Japan as late as he did because I think he could have made a run at Rose's hit record. Ichiro is 35 right now and just about ready to cross the 2000 hit mark. If he plays 10 more years and and doesn't drop off the map like Rose did at the end of his career he may top out at around 3500, but he probably won't come close to 4200. He is having another incredible year this year and may have finish the year around 2100 career hits. which is pretty close to the halfway mark.

Even though he won't beat his record I think Ichiro is a better singles hitter, but Pete Rose was the better overall hitter because he learned how to take a few walks midway through his career. If Ichiro could learn to take a few walks he may flirt with batting .400, but that isn't going to happen.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby Tavish » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:05 am

I don't do say this very often about Rose but..
Rose was a much better hitter than Ichiro, not only because of being able to take a few more walks but also wasn't almost entirely a singles hitter. Rose could rake out 40+ doubles a season to go along with the 10ish HRs and 10ish triples. Ichiro is much more like Tony Gwynn than like Pete Rose.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby Polar Bear » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:50 pm

I don't know how you can say he was a "Much" better hitter than Ichiro when Ichiro has yet to have a year under 200 hits and unless he gets hurt that streak will continue. He is the best contact hitter I have ever seen.

Overall he doesn't take many walks, but his OBP still sits around .375 every year which is right around Pete Rose. Also Ichiro doesn't need to hit as many doubles since he steals 40 bases a year.

I would give a slight edge to Rose only because he could work the count and didn't mind taking a walk. I have seen Ichiro hit a pop fly in a 0-2 game with no outs, a 3-0 count, and a guy on 1st and 2nd. I don't believe Rose would have been so careless.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:19 pm

I'm a little suprised too. They seem to be very similar hitters.
Ichiro even has a slightly higher SLG%.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby acsguitar » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:27 pm

Ichiro is one of my favorite players because he is such the polar opposite of so many big name players.

Great Speed
Great Base Stealer
Amazing Arm
Doesn't K
Great Contact.

he doesn't walk but I don't that means as much since he doesn't K either
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby Tavish » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:37 pm

Polar Bear wrote:Overall he doesn't take many walks, but his OBP still sits around .375 every year which is right around Pete Rose.

From age 27 to age 35 (the years Ichiro has been in the ML)
Rose had 7 seasons with a better OPS+ than Ichiro's best season.
Rose had 8 seasons with an OBP of .380 or over compared to 4 for Ichiro (who is working on his 5th).
Rose had 3 seasons with a SLG over .470 (Ichiro is working on his first).
Rose was approx .060 over the league SLG%, Ichiro is approx .013 over.

Also Ichiro doesn't need to hit as many doubles since he steals 40 bases a year.

A single and a SB isn't the same as a double. There are cases where it is the same value, but there are times where there is a major difference. I won't argue that Rose was as good a basestealer as Ichiro or as good a defensive player, only much better at the plate.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby HOOTIE » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:32 pm

I think Ichiro is better.

Career EQA

.298 Ichiro
.289 Rose

BRAA

Ichiro 283 in 1,361 games
Rose 522 in 3,562 games
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby lastingsgriller » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:53 pm

HOOTIE wrote:I think Ichiro is better.

Career EQA

.298 Ichiro
.289 Rose

BRAA

Ichiro 283 in 1,361 games
Rose 522 in 3,562 games


i don't know that you can argue these two players.. they are both members of a pretty elite group of hitters.. and both have a serious impact on every game they play in..

it's just too hard to compare them when ichiro didn't get to play MLB ball until he was 27.. who knows how much he would have done.. i don't really know much about his japan days, but I do know that he isn't the same player now that he was when he first came into the league.. who knows.. maybe we never saw him in his prime..

anyways.. they're both really awesome.. and Ichiro has been a joy to watch play the game..
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby JMB05 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:27 pm

Just wanted to throw a wrench in there.

Pete Rose belongs in the HoF. But his career hit total has to be looked at with a least a little discretion. After seeing the sheer number of AB's Rose put up, dwarfing any other Major league ball player in any era.

Not to discount his achievements but Rose, as of today has gone to bat 14053 times, to Ichiro's 5823.

I would take either on my team. I would vote both for the hall.
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Re: Ichiro and Pete Rose

Postby JTWood » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:13 am

JMB05 wrote:Just wanted to throw a wrench in there.

Pete Rose belongs in the HoF. But his career hit total has to be looked at with a least a little discretion.

*yawn*
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