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Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby richiro » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:38 am

BitterDodgerFan wrote:too bad ethier and some guy are done professionally. :-D


:-D
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:45 am

Maris09 wrote:
Jays for Days wrote:lol but the problem is Blake is after Manny and Torre clusterF's the lineup every night it seems

Blake was maybe their best hitter while Manny was out.

no it was pierre by a wide margin and it's a shame he's on the bench now.
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Maris09 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:49 am

BitterDodgerFan wrote:
Maris09 wrote:
Jays for Days wrote:lol but the problem is Blake is after Manny and Torre clusterF's the lineup every night it seems

Blake was maybe their best hitter while Manny was out.

no it was pierre by a wide margin and it's a shame he's on the bench now.

I don't know if it was by a wide margin:

Blake May: .359 18 RBI 17 Runs 4 HR
Pierre May: .369 18 RBI 23 Runs 9 SB

Blake June: .263 15 RBI 15 Runs 2 HR
Pierre June: .264 4 RBI 11 Runs 11 SB

I'd say that's about a wash.
Pierre was definitely the sparkplug, but Blake took over the middle of the order spot that was Manny's.

Either way it definitely is a shame he's back to the bench.
I still hope there's some chance he's traded, but I'm guessing probably not.
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby DaSh 1s » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Maris09 wrote:
thejusman1 wrote:And Matt Kemp is still batting 8th.

Yeah that continues to make no sense at all. But it's hard to really question Torre.

I'm shocked that Kemp has been able to produce as well as he has hitting in front of the pitcher like that. I guess the only rational I can see putting a guy like Kemp 8th is if they want to pitch around the 8 hitter he can steal 2nd base on them.




Why is it hard to question Joe Torre?

He brought Weaver in instead of Mariano Rivera to close game 3 of the 2003 World Series. Weaver lost that game and Marlins tied the series 2-2. If he brought Mo in the Yankes go up 3-1. I mean seriously, say that sentence allowed and try to understand it.

He brought Jeff Weaver, instead of the best CL in the history of baseball to close a game out in the World Series. Its literally absurd.

What about when Curt Schilling had ankle surgery literally before Game 5 (I believe) of the 2004 ALCS and they didn't lay down a bunt?! I mean seriously he guy had blood leaking from his ankle and they didn't try to bunt not once. He sat Kenny Lofton on the bench for that entire series.


I have watched Torre manage for years. He makes question (and dumb) decisions all the time.
Joe Torre makes questionable calls all the time
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Maris09 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:13 pm

Well:

a) Whatever he's doing....it's working for the Dodgers this year (best record in baseball)
b) Whatever he's doing with Kemp....it's working for him (.319 10 HR 46 RBI/Runs 19 SB)


No manager is perfect, what I meant is that it's hard to be overly critical of him this year (with the exception of maybe his bullpen use/overuse)


And dude, brining up stuff from the 2003 World Series :-°
I don't have the particulars on hand, but it's possible Mo had worked the previous two games and/or possibly wasn't feeling up to it that day. You and I don't know the on field logistics of the situation, so please stop pretending like you do. Pretty sure if Mo was a go that day, he'd have been in there.
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Noggy » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:11 pm

There are many complaints I could make about Torre, but the 2003 World Series is something I never have and never will complain about. Dash doesn't even have his facts straight. Weaver wasn't brought in to close out the game, the game was tied in extra innings. Rivera pitched two innings the night before. If the Yankees had a lead, Rivera would have been in the game. But in a tie game on the road, Rivera would have to pitched at least two innings again to potentially close out the game. I think the only way you do that is if the Yankees were on the verge of being eliminated, but they were leading the series at the time.

I'm not going to blame Torre because he didn't predict David Wells would throw out his back after one inning the next day or that Josh Beckett would shut them out in Game 6 on three days rest.
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Carnac » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:00 pm

selective recall.

Ethier batting in front of Manny tonight, already has a hr. :-)
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby DaSh 1s » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Noggy wrote:There are many complaints I could make about Torre, but the 2003 World Series is something I never have and never will complain about. Dash doesn't even have his facts straight. Weaver wasn't brought in to close out the game, the game was tied in extra innings. Rivera pitched two innings the night before. If the Yankees had a lead, Rivera would have been in the game. But in a tie game on the road, Rivera would have to pitched at least two innings again to potentially close out the game. I think the only way you do that is if the Yankees were on the verge of being eliminated, but they were leading the series at the time.



You are correct on the extra innings part. Sorry

Torre still tries to justify pitching Weaver in extra innings in the 2003 World Series. From his book:

"I had no options," Torre said. "People say bring in Mariano. I had no options. It was an extra-inning game on the road. There was never any consideration of other options. I never was between anybody, I know that...."

Yeah, it's a tough choice. Who do you pitch in a World Series game - the greatest closer of all time, or Jeff Weaver? It was the World Series, I really don't care Mariano worked two innings the day before. Even if that sidelines Mariano for the next two days you go up 3-1 on the series, you'd have a pretty good chance to take one out of the next three.

Torre also said this about Weaver:

"People were basing their criticism of him in Game 4 on what happened before, when he was bad. But we finally got him to the point where he was controlling his emotions better. But the result reverted to what he was before, so people say, "It's the same old guy."

I understand, Mo had worked 2 innings the night before but this is just nonsense. Torre hadn't had Weaver pitch in 28 days. He thought so little of his abilities that he never used Weaver in the entire postseason until Game 4 of the World Series.


This is just something I wil never forgive Joe for.
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Carnac » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:44 pm

2nd game in a row Ethier in the 2 hole ahead of Manny. Another HR. If Torre keeps him there he will have a monster 2nd half.
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Re: Ethier finally slotted in front of Manny

Postby Maris09 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:34 am

DaSh 1s wrote:Torre still tries to justify pitching Weaver in extra innings in the 2003 World Series. From his book:

"I had no options," Torre said. "People say bring in Mariano. I had no options. It was an extra-inning game on the road. There was never any consideration of other options. I never was between anybody, I know that...."

Yeah, it's a tough choice. Who do you pitch in a World Series game - the greatest closer of all time, or Jeff Weaver? It was the World Series, I really don't care Mariano worked two innings the day before. Even if that sidelines Mariano for the next two days you go up 3-1 on the series, you'd have a pretty good chance to take one out of the next three.

Bro....this is still basic stuff here. You're still not getting the whole on the road in a tie game thing.

You don't bring in your closer....in a tie game.....on the road.

If you happen to take the lead, you are still going to need someone to close out the game.
Question Torre if you want, I'm sure there are valid reasons out there. This ain't one of them.
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