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Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:53 pm

I'm surprised no one has brought up Holds. It always bothered me that a RP could come in with a 2 run lead, give up a solo HR and leave the game with a hold without recording an out.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby HOOTIE » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:48 am

keeks137 wrote:
ivanhack wrote:Saves is the most overvalued stat in baseball. A closer has to be lucky enough to get a lot of save opportunities and often simply has to protect a 3 run lead.


Yeah, sheer number of saves are a bit of a crapshoot.

But, I'm glad the stat exists, as save % is definitely something everyone (in terms of GMs, the media, and the general public) should be interested in. You have to know if a guy cracks under the pressure.


Save % is pretty flawed. It all depends on how many outs the pitcher needs to get for a save, the number of base runners he inherited, the amount of runs he has to play with. Just about any closer in the past 10 years has Gossage beat in save %, but only about 1% of them were as good.

Wins balance out over a career. Even the so called unlucky Nolan Ryan in over 800 games, only is -9 in expected wins.

Saves, blown saves, save % are the most flawed imo.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby HOOTIE » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:49 am

Fielding % is another almost useless stat.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby LloydChristmas » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:06 am

swyck wrote:Gawd another Wins whine. %-6

Last I looked the point of the game was to, um, win the game. The thing that bugs me is that you can make a case that all fantasy cats (other then MAYBE Ks and HRs) are flawed, so if you want to play in a 2x2 league with HR, OPS, K's and FIP be my guest.


No stat is without it's flaws. My main point is that wins can be very misleading. You see two pitchers with the same amount of wins and you assume they must have pitched at similar levels. That is many times very untrue. There's really no way to argue against that very basic point.

If you maintain a "the point of the game is to win" perspective, I'd welcome you to my league where I'll gladly trade you Randy Johnson (8 Wins) for Josh Johnson (7 Wins) because as Herman Edwards taught us "you play to win the game!"

Kidding aside, I understand the point you're trying to make. I never said wins shouldn't be a category in fantasy sports. Like I said, every stat has its flaws and that adds a lot of fun to fantasy sports in many ways. You have to consider a lot of factors when valuing players. If you'll read my blurb again, I was only saying that wins are overvalued when it comes to assessing a pitcher's performance. That's it and that's all.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:57 am

bigh0rt wrote:
Tavish wrote:
ivanhack wrote:Saves is the most overvalued stat in baseball. A closer has to be lucky enough to get a lot of save opportunities and often simply has to protect a 3 run lead.

This 100X over.

More than Calm Eyes Index? Really?


our league actually uses xCEI...it adjusts for players who wear sunglasses :^
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby mblax10 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:03 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:I'm surprised no one has brought up Holds. It always bothered me that a RP could come in with a 2 run lead, give up a solo HR and leave the game with a hold without recording an out.


Probably because your example isn't a hold.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:16 am

mblax10 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I'm surprised no one has brought up Holds. It always bothered me that a RP could come in with a 2 run lead, give up a solo HR and leave the game with a hold without recording an out.


Probably because your example isn't a hold.


Holds are not an official Major League Baseball statistic, so the definition can vary.
Some sources require that an out is recorded while others don't.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby Yoda » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:19 am

home runs are overrated
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby Tavish » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:57 am

Yoda wrote:home runs are overrated

Not to chicks.
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Re: Wins: Most overvalued stat in baseball?

Postby dark2025 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:11 am

It always bothered me when a closer comes in the top of the 9th with the score 3-0 and gives up 4 runs, but then somebody gets a walk-off HR in the bottom, the closer gets a W, even though he most certainly did not deserve it. In fact he really deserves a big fat L. Maybe they should subdivide wins into EW and W (much like ER and R) :-D
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