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Constantly starting the wrong guys

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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby hot4tx » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:02 pm

If you do something that odds are is better for you and will deliver a positive EV over time, but you might get unlucky and it hurt you some times in the short run you should never do it. In fact you should do things that don't even leave you with the possibility of doing those things, even if that hurts you over the long run and causes many problems. :-D
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby Bwanna » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:40 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
bigken117 wrote:this is why I don't carry bench hitters. Nothing worse than following the stats based matchups and leaving a home run on your bench.


No. What's worse is not carrying bench hitters. It makes absolutely zero sense not to.

Yeah sure you pull the wrong reign sometimes but overall luck will even out. I simply cannot fathom the mentality of not having depth (if your league allows it) in your hitting roster. There are very few negatives and plenty of positives.

It's a no brainer.


Correct. ;D

Don't confuse lack of frustration with a competitive advantage. I.e., not having to choose which players to start is easy, but doesn't mean it helps you win.

Advantages of having good bench position players include...
1) injury replacement (always seems unnecessary until it happens, and it happens)
2) your opponents can't start them
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby urbanbreez » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:14 pm

NZ Eff wrote:
bigken117 wrote:this is why I don't carry bench hitters. Nothing worse than following the stats based matchups and leaving a home run on your bench.


No. What's worse is not carrying bench hitters. It makes absolutely zero sense not to.

Yeah sure you pull the wrong reign sometimes but overall luck will even out. I simply cannot fathom the mentality of not having depth (if your league allows it) in your hitting roster. There are very few negatives and plenty of positives.

It's a no brainer.


Tell that to Shane Victorino, who was on my bench yesterday. %-6

No but seriously, you need some depth, just in case.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby kab21 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:06 pm

It really depends on the league that you're in.

Some leagues with no limits on pitcher streaming from your bench (or even the waiver wire) you need to load up on all the pitchers you can get (particularly pts leagues). And if it's a shallow league there is usually a suitable offensive replacement on the waiver wire. In my 12 team pts league we have 5 bench spots and I only use one of them for a hitter (and in the playoffs would probably add another pitcher). It's nice since we have IF, OF and UT spots so you can maintain a lot of positional flexibility with only one bench spot (unless the guy that gets injured is DeRosa whom was your only 3B).

But in my 20 and 24 team leagues having bench hitters is incredibly valuable since there isn't anything on the waiver wire worth starting. And especially when you have very effective streaming limits (like absolutely no streaming) then you fill up those any remotely valuable player that you can. And so far my platoon of Dejesus/Schumaker/Matsui/Rolen (based on lefty/righty pitching matchups and quality of pitcher) has been pretty successful. In addition to being able to rack up some extra points on the Monday/Thursday travel since I have bench hitters.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby thejusman1 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:42 pm

I gotta agree with the previous poster. It all depends on the size of your league.

The money league I'm in this year has only 5 bench spots, and we have a standard 9-man lineup (C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, 3xOF, Util). Since it's a 10-team league, everyone's team is pretty good, and you just don't start people who don't have an everyday gig AND have good value (for example, Casey Blake, a pretty good hitter this year, has remained unowned all season). I hate the concept of a platoon, cause I feel the value of an extra SP/RP is so much more important than that minute increase in stats. What's the value of that bench hitter anyway when he's likely to be of lower quality than the others? Four extra at-bats a week of an average hitter? Maybe eight? Does that make up for having a closer all week, or a starting pitcher?

I'm able to run 8 starting pitchers and 4 closers with my set-up, ensuring that I always have a strong chance to win Ws and wrack up SVs and Ks.

I can see how in a deeper league, where the lack of depth of starting pitching and closers would limit the quality of players on your team, that bench hitters would be of some value. Who wants to have Livan Hernandez in even the deepest league? I'd much rather grab Casey Blake there.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby bigken117 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:35 pm

NZ Eff wrote: I simply cannot fathom the mentality of not having depth (if your league allows it) in your hitting roster. There are very few negatives and plenty of positives.

It's a no brainer.


The same could be said for having pitching depth ;-)
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby pokerplaya » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:42 pm

bigken117 wrote:
NZ Eff wrote: I simply cannot fathom the mentality of not having depth (if your league allows it) in your hitting roster. There are very few negatives and plenty of positives.

It's a no brainer.


The same could be said for having pitching depth ;-)


Exactly. If my league is set up where it makes sense to have a bench bat, I will. But where bench spots are scarce, give me the bench spots for pitchers just about every time.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby RyeWhiskey » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:43 pm

It's been noted, but league size and settings make all the difference. With that said, in standard leagues (both H2H and roto), I see no reason to carry anything beyond one bench hitter (preferably a multi-position guy for off-days).

My reasoning is simple. If your starting hitters are solid, no reason to tinker. This whole thread is about the pointless pain from tinkering. On the other hand, tinkering with SPs regarding match-ups is key. Some guys are beasts at home (C Young of SD comes to mind). Others on the road. Some guys are slumping but could be turning it around (Liriano). Same with hitters, but the difference is that your SP goes once every 5 days.
The more SPs you have, the larger your relative advantage towards Ws, Ks, ERA, and WHIP. Each bench hitter is wasted stats when he doesn't play. Benched SPs aren't wasted at all, just waiting their turn. Cycling loads of SPs (and leaving them out when match-ups dictate) gives you a greater chance at nailing down the fickle pitching cats while your hitters do what they do - hit. Furthermore, if you have lots of SPs, you can drop the lesser ones (spot starters, streamers, etc...) when a guy comes around with more potential or a better match-up. Basically, you have more flexibility.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby NZ Eff » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:57 pm

bigken117 wrote:
NZ Eff wrote: I simply cannot fathom the mentality of not having depth (if your league allows it) in your hitting roster. There are very few negatives and plenty of positives.

It's a no brainer.


The same could be said for having pitching depth ;-)


No, pitching depth is not nearly as important as hitting depth for a number of reasons.
One huge factor is that there is generally a multitude of servicable SP's that can be streamed at a pinch in most leagues. not so with hitters.
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Re: Constantly starting the wrong guys

Postby Ursa » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:08 pm

bigken117 wrote:this is why I don't carry bench hitters. Nothing worse than following the stats based matchups and leaving a home run on your bench.

Reached hjome tonight about two minutes too late to insert Ludwick in place of Kubel. Kubel sits, Ludwick hits a 3 run homer. Every freakin' time. :-P
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