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Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby RDD15 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:39 pm

kab21 wrote:
RDD15 wrote:The presence of Austin Romine is the one thing that makes me doubt Montero sticking at catcher the most.

I dont think that you would see a situation where Montero winds up as an everyday DH that catches occasionally for a couple of reasons.

1. If Montero is DH'ing, then the Yankees would still have to carry a backup catcher in case the starting catcher is injured in a game that Montero is DHing. That backup catcher would almost certainly be vastly superior to Montero defensively, and on days that the starter needs rest, they would probably go with the guy that is better defensively.

2. If Montero's defense is already questionable, it is only going to deteriorate if he is an everyday DH that catches on occasion. It makes no sense for the Yanks to put him in the lineup at catcher once a week and watch him try to work the rust off in games.


romine is a nice prospect but there really isn't a lot of offensive upside. If Montero develops into that .900+ OPS bat and his defense is tolerable they'll keep him at catcher at least 50% of the time and worry about Romine later. Personally I see a 50/50 split with Posada and Montero at catcher as long as Posada is with the team.

Montero is 20. If you think Montero's defense can only deteriorate then I have no idea how any prospect improves (playing only 50% of the time at catcher will not be detrimental to his catching skills). I doubt that Montero is still a catcher at 30 but if he can play there for 5 years that has huge value as a fantasy prospect. Especially considering that he'll be DH'ing on his non-catching days and in the lineup almost everyday.


You are shooting holes in my opinion that do not exist. I said that if Montero DH's almost every day, then his catching skills will deteriorate and he wont be viable as a once per week catcher if there is another backup catcher on the roster.

Posada will turn 39 years old this year. If he and Montero are ever to split time 50-50, it will be for a year (2011) at most, but I doubt that ever comes to pass. Posada wont be catching 80 games when he is 41 years old in 2012. Posada can not beat Father Time.

Romine might not be an elite hitting prospect, but I feel that it is most likely that Montero struggles to maintain catcher eligibility throughout his career. He might get a couple of years, but he will move sooner than later. But the reality is that all we have are opinions, unless we happen to be part of Yankee management, which i highly doubt is the case.

Back to the original topic at hand though. Either Posey or Montero. Even if Montero loses his catching eligibility, he will be valuable as a hitter elsewhere. If he maintains catching eligibility, you hit the jackpot. Posey is more of a solid bet to keep at catcher, Montero is the high ceiling option.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby kab21 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:37 am

RDD15 wrote:
You are shooting holes in my opinion that do not exist. I said that if Montero DH's almost every day, then his catching skills will deteriorate and he wont be viable as a once per week catcher if there is another backup catcher on the roster.

Posada will turn 39 years old this year. If he and Montero are ever to split time 50-50, it will be for a year (2011) at most, but I doubt that ever comes to pass. Posada wont be catching 80 games when he is 41 years old in 2012. Posada can not beat Father Time.

Romine might not be an elite hitting prospect, but I feel that it is most likely that Montero struggles to maintain catcher eligibility throughout his career. He might get a couple of years, but he will move sooner than later. But the reality is that all we have are opinions, unless we happen to be part of Yankee management, which i highly doubt is the case.

Back to the original topic at hand though. Either Posey or Montero. Even if Montero loses his catching eligibility, he will be valuable as a hitter elsewhere. If he maintains catching eligibility, you hit the jackpot. Posey is more of a solid bet to keep at catcher, Montero is the high ceiling option.


Here's a simpler argument. If Montero can play passable defense (I think he can) then I think the Yankees will choose the .900 OPS bat over the .750 OPS bat that comes with good defense. And then I see romine as a very talented backup (that plays 60-80 games per year) or traded.

I do really like Posey also. I see him becoming a McCann level player.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby RDD15 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:32 am

Thing is, if Romine is "very talented" as you say, then does it not make sense to use him as the regular catcher? Here is why I think it is.

You take a look at a guy like Posada or Piazza. As a catcher, they only played about 140 games per year. Posada has gotten some run as a DH, but not nearly as much as you might think (about 3.5% of his Major League games). Would it not make sense for a team to take advantage of a bat like Montero's by getting him into 160 games per year instead of 140?

If you say yes to that, then I go back to my previous points regarding using Montero as a DH and a catcher both. If Montero is the regular catcher and DH's on his "rest day", his body is not getting proper rest, and you still almost have to carry a third catcher on your roster for injury insurance. If Montero is the backup catcher, DH'ing most of the time and catching once per week or so, then you need the third catcher even more.

So since you are already carrying three catchers, it makes sense to DH Montero (or teach him a new position), and keep the two superior defensive options behind the plate since they will both have to be on the roster anyway. This holds even more true if Romine is "very talented".

I agree, if the choice was between Romine and Montero as a catcher, then you take Montero and his .900 OPS over Romine and his .750. That is easy. But that is not the choice. Montero can move to other positions and his .900 OPS bat would still be in the lineup. And that leaves Romine behind the plate, providing a Varitek-like bat (not too awful) and stellar defense.

Like I said before, none of us are Yankee employees that actually have bearings on what defensive position Jesus Montero plays. But I see Montero not sticking at catcher because of the several factors that I outlined above. That is an opinion of mine, but I think that I back it up with enough reason that it must be at least respected as a plausible scenario. Anyone that simply dismisses this possibility is wearing blinders and being overly optimistic.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby kab21 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:27 pm

It is incredibly easy for the Yankees to find a .850 bat to DH. So the upgrade to Montero isn't much of an upgrade. Getting .900 OPS from a catcher is almost impossible to find and crazy valuable. If his glove allows him to play there then he will.

Romine is extremely talented as a BACKUP catcher. As a starting catcher he would still be probably average which is a luxury the Yankees can afford.

Posada hasn't DH'd much because the Yankees haven't had a backup catcher as good as Romine (if he hits his projections). And the Yankees have had full-time players at DH.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby 910BronxBomber » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:28 am

Obviously there is no need for me to comment on the Montero situation. I will say that I have no doubt in my mind that he ends up either out of New York and catching or staying in New York as a DH.

Back to the point on hand, I have Santana, Posey on my list to make a splash this year. Montero could be considered here, but only as long as he keeps his catching eligibility.

Someone I want to mention, that I haven't seen his name tossed around much, is Adam Moore of the Mariners. He's obviously not top 5, but the kid is still a rookie, and has won a spot on the Mariners roster. Moore also has had an impressive spring, and I think he's one to watch.

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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby thedude » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:43 pm

kab21 wrote:Here's a simpler argument. If Montero can play passable defense (I think he can) then I think the Yankees will choose the .900 OPS bat over the .750 OPS bat that comes with good defense.


But that rests on the assumption that Montero can play passable defense at catcher. Many do not think that is possible, which is why it is thought he will move to DH.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby kab21 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:56 am

thedude wrote:
But that rests on the assumption that Montero can play passable defense at catcher. Many do not think that is possible, which is why it is thought he will move to DH.


I'm not making an assumption. I'm saying that he's not going to be pushed off of catcher by Romine (which some are claiming) if his defense is decent enough to stick at catcher. Guys like Montero don't get moved if an ordinary prospect is promoted. If it isn't decent then he'll be a DH like many think he will.
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby DaSh 1s » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:28 pm

RF.....
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: Best catching prospect NOT named Wieters?

Postby thedude » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:36 pm

kab21 wrote:
thedude wrote:
But that rests on the assumption that Montero can play passable defense at catcher. Many do not think that is possible, which is why it is thought he will move to DH.


I'm not making an assumption. I'm saying that he's not going to be pushed off of catcher by Romine (which some are claiming) if his defense is decent enough to stick at catcher. Guys like Montero don't get moved if an ordinary prospect is promoted. If it isn't decent then he'll be a DH like many think he will.


I am sorry, I must have scrolled past that part of the discussion. I agree that big bats like Montero playing passable defense rarely get moved for regular prospects. ;-D
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