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Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby acsguitar » Wed May 27, 2009 5:29 pm

knapplc wrote:
acsguitar wrote:See this is the problem. You ignore the civilan deaths we cause. Lots and lots of civilian deaths. If Al Qaeda was killing Civilans then you might have a different opinion.

Nobody likes civilian casualties but they're inherent in war. Any country with a standing military either has been guilty of civilian casualties or will be if they ever use their military, for attack or defense.

The US, however, has gone to extreme lengths to minimize civilian casualties, unlike your poorly chosen comparator, Al Qaeda, whose prime goal in their one major "offensive" against America was SOLELY civilians.

America wants there to be zero civilians in their crosshairs. Al Qaeda wants mostly civilian casualties. Big difference there.


Yea big difference in Numbers! 3000 American civilians VS 100,000 + Iraqi/Afghani Civlians.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 27, 2009 5:46 pm

Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:If 9/11 never happened and Saddam had given us all the oil and political support we could have ever wanted, we'd still be bombing villages all over the Middle East.


If our response to 9/11 had been a real show of force instead of us hiding behind our skirts shooting a pop gun at Afghanistan, Saddam never would have stood up to the UN and we never would have gone into Iraq. And North Korea wouldn't be building its nuclear program wide out in the open like they are.

But we proved to the world that we no longer have the stones to do what it takes to ensure our country remains free and safe, so it is of no surprise at all that the other countries out there know they can mess with us all they like. Not because of our military of course, it's due to politics and the limp-wristed people out there.

Do you not feel free or safe?
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby knapplc » Wed May 27, 2009 5:51 pm

acsguitar wrote:Yea big difference in Numbers! 3000 American civilians VS 100,000 + Iraqi/Afghani Civlians.

Where are you getting that figure? Iraq Body Count estimates a total of 79,000 civilian deaths in Iraq, with the US responsible for 30%, or about 24,000. IBC uses Iraqi journalists for their figures, so I doubt they have much reason to lie on America's behalf.

Of America and Al Qaeda, which one do you think pays reparations to the families of those civilians. I'll give you a hint - it's not Al Qaeda. ;-)
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Madison » Wed May 27, 2009 6:39 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:If 9/11 never happened and Saddam had given us all the oil and political support we could have ever wanted, we'd still be bombing villages all over the Middle East.


If our response to 9/11 had been a real show of force instead of us hiding behind our skirts shooting a pop gun at Afghanistan, Saddam never would have stood up to the UN and we never would have gone into Iraq. And North Korea wouldn't be building its nuclear program wide out in the open like they are.

But we proved to the world that we no longer have the stones to do what it takes to ensure our country remains free and safe, so it is of no surprise at all that the other countries out there know they can mess with us all they like. Not because of our military of course, it's due to politics and the limp-wristed people out there.

Do you not feel free or safe?


I was simply responding to an absurd "if" scenario with a realistic one. We're not a bully, we're the quiet kid everyone knows not to mess with because he won't just bloody your nose like the bully will, he will send you to the hospital.

As to my opinion on the security of this country, "uneasy" would be the way I'd describe it right now. We've got the best military in the world and we can crush any foe, but if the government plays politics and bends to the wishes of the weak-stomached like it did with Afghanistan post 9/11, then this country will be easily overthrown. Showing how weak we've become certainly did not help that situation at all. Afghanistan was a perfect opportunity to remind the world that you don't mess with the quiet kid, but Bush caved to the limp-wristed and here we are.

So it all boils down to if Obama and the current administration has the stones to wipe an entire country off the face of the Earth if needed. That is a question I do not know the answer to. I know there will be outcry by those that simply do not understand what "war" really is and what the real price of being safe and free really is, but I do not know how the current administration would react when put to the test. I predicted when we dropped the ball with Afghanistan that someone would put us to the test within 5 years, and while I missed the timeline, it is going to happen. Just a matter of who, when, and if we'll find our stones or not. So "uneasy" is the best way to describe my feelings on it all.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby jfg » Wed May 27, 2009 7:06 pm

Somebody said earlier that most people already have decided to hate America and there is no turning that around. I have mixed feelings about that. If we became a neutral country and stopped policing the world I think we'd be a lot safer from terrorism. However, if that did happen, we'd become a lot less powerful and less feared I think. Is that good or bad? I think the less powerful countries will respect us more but other power countries might be able to push us around or maybe even worse.

Ideally, America would become neutral, the world would leave us alone politically (which means we'd abandon all ties with the U.N.) and we'd work together financially, hopefully becoming a little more self-sufficient at the same time. But, I don't know if the world would leave us alone if we left them alone. How many people would hate us for not helping them? But, in my opinion we need to move more towards neutrality and let the world look to somebody else for awhile. I don't think any president is willing to take chances to do that though. I just wonder how safe our country would be if all of our military spending was spent on defense, maybe covert operations. I don't know much about the military but it just seems like we'd be safer.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby knapplc » Wed May 27, 2009 7:09 pm

Becoming neutral doesn't mean becoming isolationist. Even the Swiss have an Ambassador at the U.N.
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Thu May 28, 2009 1:36 am

Isolationism FTL :-t
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu May 28, 2009 1:53 am

I just want America to reduce the flow of support to Israel. What the hell have they done for us lately? (or ever, for that matter)
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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby AussieDodger » Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:I just want America to reduce the flow of support to Israel. What the hell have they done for us lately? (or ever, for that matter)


Made your movies and TV shows.

Ungrateful so-and-so :-t


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Re: Conservative Talk show Host Gets Waterboarded

Postby jlm53089 » Thu May 28, 2009 2:55 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:I just want America to reduce the flow of support to Israel. What the hell have they done for us lately? (or ever, for that matter)



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