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Jose Reyes - mid-August? (close to running the bases - 7/25)

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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby StarsNPinstripes » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:24 pm

Not so fast :~(

From Rotoworld:
Jul. 8 - 5:10 pm et

According to the New York Post's Bart Hubbuch, a New England-area report stating Jose Reyes will begin a rehab assignment Thursday is not correct.

The report surfaced out of Triple-A Pawtucket, where the Mets' affiliate from Buffalo, New York is about to begin a series. Apparently the PawSox media group confused Argenis Reyes with Jose. The All-Star shorstop is still on the sidelines with hamstring discomfort.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby jake_harv88 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:36 pm

Yeah I'm not surprised. Something seemed inherently flawed with that report...
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby TomBrooklyn » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:46 pm

A new owner took over the last place team in my league on July 8 and dropped Reyes to the wire. Did that make sense?
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby hscsoph » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:58 pm

I own Zobrist and I highly doubt Reyes will make my starting roster the rest of the year if his speed will be limited. I along with many owners have washed our hands of this 1st round draft pick cancer. I don't understand why he is always in the first round, I had him as a keeper but wouldn't waste a top 20 pick on him in any format from here on out.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby Fade2White12 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:38 pm

hscsoph wrote:I own Zobrist and I highly doubt Reyes will make my starting roster the rest of the year if his speed will be limited. I along with many owners have washed our hands of this 1st round draft pick cancer. I don't understand why he is always in the first round, I had him as a keeper but wouldn't waste a top 20 pick on him in any format from here on out.


The reason why he is always in the first round is because he almost invariably ends the year producing first round numbers.

2006 - 5th most valuable (via BBMonster)
2007 - 13th most valuable
2008 - 13th most valuable

Up until this year, he has always produced close to his draft position. There have been only a handful that have been able to consistently do so. He also plays a premium position.

Top 20 from here on out? Probably not. Top 50? I'd say so (assuming he comes back semi-healthy). Top 20 next season? You betcha.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby hscsoph » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:04 pm

I understand your point of he has produced in the past, but he has not produced where his pre season draft value has been. The highest I have seen him in the past three years is 7th and you can get so much better talent in the first two rounds. I know this isn't the place to discuss draft strategies, but I do not overreach on guys just because of position eligibility. Hanley to me is a different beast than Reyes because he has power.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby Fade2White12 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:34 pm

Cafe Mock Draft Results - Reyes Selections

2005 - 82nd
2006 - 54th
2007 - 6th
2008 - 3rd

He blew past his draft position in '05-'06, and instead of being a mid 1st rounder in '07-'08, he was a late 1st rounder.

Let's just take last year's draft as an example. Top 12 picks:
Alex Rodriguez, 3B - NYY
Albert Pujols, 1B - STL
Jose Reyes, SS - NYM
Matt Holliday, OF - Col
Hanley Ramirez, SS - Fla
David Wright, 3B - NYM
Ryan Howard, 1B - Phi
Chase Utley, 2B - Phi
Miguel Cabrera, 3B - Det
Jimmy Rollins, SS - Phi
David Ortiz, 1B - Bos
Johan Santana, SP - Min

Actual top 12 by year's end:
Pujols
Halladay
Sabathia
Wright
Ramirez
Lincecum
Lee
Ramirez, H
Berkman
Holliday
Santana
Hamilton

That's 5 out of 12 first round picks who actually ended the season in the top 12. Out of those top 12, only 1 played a position other than 1B, OF, or SP. The fact that Reyes has been able to consistently stay in or around the first round at a scarce position shouldn't be underestimated. Now if you just don't "like" to draft speed, that's fine - as it is a lot of people's preference (including my own) - but when all is said and done, Reyes ends up being one of the most valuable players in fantasy, like it or not.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby hscsoph » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:49 pm

Well why are people so down on Crawford? I know this year he has come to life but regardless of position scarcity I would take him in a heart over Reyes. I also think people should pay attention to the "lack" of leadership on the Mets and the constant injuries with guys (Beltran, Delgado) who allow Reyes to get those numbers we covet like runs scored. One of the greatest draft strategies I have ever heard is when you draft a position early look and see if you would draft that player's numbers if he was a first baseman. With 1B like Pujols, MigCab and others you know you are getting 4 tools and just hope for a few SB. Reyes you used to be able to count on SB and runs scored and wish for the other 3 to be mediocre. I am just a current Reyes owner who wishes he would have passed. The guy just doesn't impress me.
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby Fade2White12 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:40 pm

I understand exactly what you're saying, but you seem not to be looking objectively at Reyes here.

Just like you, I'm not a guy who likes to draft speedsters, and barely ever will you see me doing so. It's not that Reyes/Crawford are not valuable to me, it's just that I generally build my teams differently. Regardless of how you feel about speedsters overall, or which draft strategies you like to institute, the fact that you don't care for a type of player does not mean the player does not have his value. All you have to do is take an objective valuation site, like ESPN's player rater, or BaseballMonster, to truly see how valuable a player's fantasy numbers are.

With you being a current Reyes owner, I can see your frustration. But are you an owner of his in years past? His overall fantasy production (like I've said earlier) is always stellar. Over the last three years, the worst he's been was the 13th best overall fantasy player. Consistency.

Other than this year's injury, I just don't understand how you can say that you "used to be able to count on SB and runs" from Reyes. Why can you not still? When he's healthy, that's what he does. You say you wish you would have passed on him, but if he had not gotten hurt and was currently scoring the 13th most fantasy points, you wouldn't be wishing you'd have passed on the #2 fantasy shortstop. I can't promise you that he'll be amazing once he returns, but you're making him out to be a bum. I doubt you'd say Sizemore or Webb are bad players just because they are injured - so why say that about Reyes? Again, regardless of how you feel about his playing style and its use in fantasy, there really is no way to argue he's not deserving of a 1st or 2nd Rd pick (at least coming into 2009).
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Re: Jose Reyes - Out until at least July (Rehab delayed on 6/17)

Postby hscsoph » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:56 pm

Good points and I love the discussion going on here since there is obviously no news on the injury front for Reyes. My point is the Mets are struggling and two of their main RBI guys (Beltran and Delgado) cannot be counted on due to their injury history. I am more or less frustrated with the Mets organization. Reyes in my book is not as valuable as his draft position each year. I mean a lot of expers had him 3rd overall this year and to me that is reaching big time. I know he is a SS and has been consistent but the boat has left the dock for me.

Here is my point, another speedster Jacoby Ellsbury is ranked 43 in one of my yahoo H2H leagues ahead of the likes on Youkilis, Longoria, Perdroia, I could go on and on. Why is he ranked so high, for steals alone. You take his steals away what does he really have? There is no point for a guy in a roto league to cream the competition in stolen bases or beat everyone in a H2H league by 6 steals a week. To me steals and moreover Reyes is overrated.
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