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Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

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Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Mrmet » Sun May 10, 2009 1:30 pm

Moved from trade forum

As the commish in a league this trade was just put through. I dont think rosters would be needed to try and justify this move. Two good friends, 1 in second place the other in last. I think you can guess who is trading who just by the names? Vetoable? I think the league may shoot it down but just in case I thought I would ask around for opinions. I know Cantu is off to a good start and Lee is starting slow But come on now!
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby RDD15 » Sun May 10, 2009 6:07 pm

Maybe. But it is two decent players here, so we probably need the extent of the situation to be explained. Rosters, keeper or redraft, scoring rules, etc.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon May 11, 2009 9:16 am

no
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Hitchcock » Mon May 11, 2009 10:23 am

true, w/o seeing or knowing stipulations it can be difficult sometimes. But on paper, I'd prob. say that this is not vetoable.

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^^Thanks to Smoovethug for the sharp sig.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby lilfrier » Mon May 11, 2009 1:19 pm

Yeah. Unless it's something where the team trading Lee (I assume the lesser team) has NO other OF options worth anything and has a stud or 2 at 3B/CI, no way. Only if it's clearly hurting the bad team in a crazy manner to help the better team with a specific need can you even think it unfair.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Mrmet » Mon May 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Lee is currently his utility player. Here is his roster 20.5 games out, in 10th place
C
Brandon Inge Det C, 3B
1B
Adam LaRoche Pit 1B
2B
Dustin Pedroia Bos 2B
3B
Hank Blalock Tex 1B, 3B, DH
2B
Emmanuel Burriss SF 2B, SS
LF
Alfonso Soriano
CF
B.J. Upton TB CF [Recent News]
RF
Elijah Dukes Was CF, RF
UTIL
Carlos Lee Hou LF

Bench
Aramis Ramirez ChC 3B DL15
Chone Figgins LAA 3B
Derrek Lee ChC 1B DTD
Vladimir Guerrero LAA RF


My thing is if that's the case couldn't Lee fetch a better first baseman. With Aram and Figgins on the team I suppose he is looking to slot Cantu as a 1st baseman with D Lee declining. This is a keeper league with 5 keepers allowed per team. In our third year. C Lee was one of his keepers last year.



Heres the roster of the team that would be getting Lee Currently in first place by a game

C
Rod Barajas Tor C
1B
Miguel Cabrera Det 1B
2B
Orlando Hudson LAD 2B
3B
Alex Rodriguez NYY 3B
SS
Hanley Ramirez Fla SS
LF
Adam Lind Tor LF, DH
CF
Jay Bruce Cin CF, RF
RF
Nick Markakis Bal RF
UTIL
Jorge Cantu Fla 1B, 3B

Bench
Troy Tulowitzki Col SS
Jose Lopez Sea 2B
Mike Cameron Mil CF
Asdrubal Cabrera Cle 2B, SS
Mark Teahen KC 3B, LF, RF
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby RDD15 » Mon May 11, 2009 6:10 pm

Here is what I see in defense of the team getting Cantu.

Currently he has 5 OF that are worthy of being in his starting lineup (Soriano, Upton, Dukes, Lee, Vlad when he comes back in a week or so) and a crap 1B (LaRoche). By doing this deal, he gets Vlad off the bench and puts LaRoche on the bench.

Since beginning of '08:

Cantu: 204 hits for ..279 average, 109 R, 127 RBI, 37 HR, 6SB. On a decent up and coming team, probably dual-position eligible, 27 years old.

Lee: 176 hits for .318 average, 75 R, 126 RBI, 34 HR, 4SB. On a declining team with a bad offense. Only eligible as an OF which is deep. 33 years old.

Granted, Lee did miss a month last year with injury, but those lost stats can be considered the discount in value that he should receive for being an older player that is more of an injury concern.

One point that was made was the question of whether Lee could bring in a better 1Bman. Well, maybe. But sometimes a trade in hand is worth two trades in the bush. A deal got done, and rather than dick around trying to make this upgrade happen for another two weeks, the owner got the deal done now and upgraded immediately. Besides, your job isn't to decide whether or not these teams both made the best deal that they could. Your job is to make sure that trades do not compromise the integrity of your league. To me, it is fairly clear that this trade has not done that.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Mrmet » Mon May 11, 2009 6:54 pm

Actually I was just looking for input from unbiased others. The trade did get vetoed by the league (as I thought it would). Thanks for those numbers though. I do know that Cantu is 27 and a player coming in to his own. I had a trade vetoed a few years back when I wanted Aron Rowand from someone and I was offering J Edmonds. That trade was also vetoed by the league and I was livid about it. It was Rowands first year with the Phils and I was very high on him. Edmonds missed most of that year and Rowand would have been a great upgrade for me. The league felt Edmonds was too much to offer. Again thanks for those stat lines. Maybe those two weren't as far off as I thought.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby SumG » Mon May 11, 2009 10:03 pm

I think if there is some justification for move you can't veto it. Maybe the guy trading for Cantu has a gaping hole at 3B or something. Just because you wouldn't make the deal doesn't make it vetoable.
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Re: Carlos Lee for Jorge Cantu?? Vetoable?

Postby Mrmet » Mon May 11, 2009 11:29 pm

SumG Thats why I came looking for other opinions......
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