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Aramis Ramirez goes down again

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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby Whalewang » Sat May 09, 2009 12:39 pm

Anyone willing to speculate how much PT Freel gets while ARAM is out?
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby socceryank » Sun May 10, 2009 10:47 am

RenPastana wrote:I missed how he came down and only saw him lying on the ground in fervent pain while grabbing his left shoulder...

Per rotoworld
Aramis Ramirez suffered a dislocated left shoulder Friday after diving for a ball on third base.
Uh oh. No timetable for his return was given, but this isn't good news. On the bright side, it isn't a separated shoulder, which is significantly worse due to ligament tears. A detailed prognosis will be known after medical officials examine him further. Mike Fontenot shifted to third from second while Aaron Miles came in to play second.

Actually, a separated shoulder is typically not as severe as a dislocated shoulder, and involve two different joints of the shoulder. A traumatic dislocation is usually bad news, as it will almost certainly result in ligament tearing that requires surgical correction, but can also cause a rotator cuff or labral tear as well. Unless the shoulder separation is of the most severe type, it usually will not require surgery.
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby bazzy_51 » Sun May 10, 2009 12:32 pm

socceryank wrote:
RenPastana wrote:I missed how he came down and only saw him lying on the ground in fervent pain while grabbing his left shoulder...

Per rotoworld
Aramis Ramirez suffered a dislocated left shoulder Friday after diving for a ball on third base.
Uh oh. No timetable for his return was given, but this isn't good news. On the bright side, it isn't a separated shoulder, which is significantly worse due to ligament tears. A detailed prognosis will be known after medical officials examine him further. Mike Fontenot shifted to third from second while Aaron Miles came in to play second.

Actually, a separated shoulder is typically not as severe as a dislocated shoulder, and involve two different joints of the shoulder. A traumatic dislocation is usually bad news, as it will almost certainly result in ligament tearing that requires surgical correction, but can also cause a rotator cuff or labral tear as well. Unless the shoulder separation is of the most severe type, it usually will not require surgery.


Not entirely true about the dislocation either... like i stated earlier he had shoulder problems in 1998 with Pittsburgh he had what they call a shoulder subluxation (from wiki, the presence of an incomplete or partial dislocation of a joint or organ) which means he has already had, compared to the normal person, severe shoulder trama... my father has had multiple dislocations of his shoulders, and after the first time the doc told him they only get easier to deal with... most people after the first trama, unless its of a totally different nature, only require rehab (you can never rule out surgery)... Again it all depends on which type it is and how severe, im guessing dislocation simply because a separation usually happens with a blow to the top of the shoulder separating, in short, a shoulder separation is an injury to the acromioclavicular joint on the top of the shoulder. The shoulder joint is formed at the junction of three bones: the collarbone (clavicle), the shoulder blade (scapula), and the arm bone (humerus). The scapula and clavicle form the socket of the joint, and the humerus has a round head that fits within this socket. A shoulder separation occurs where the clavicle and the scapula come together. The end of the scapula is called the acromion, and the joint between this part of the scapula and clavicle is called the acromioclavicular joint. When this joint is disrupted, it is called a shoulder separation.

In most cases a shoulder dislocation is, as far a recovery time, easier to get through and quicker then a shoulder separation... BUT, i know there is always a but, shoulder dislocations in the long run for the human are much worse in terms of mobility of the shoulder then a shoulder separation... in more simple terms simply because a dislocation is a strain on the muscles around the joint where as a separation is usually a strain on the tendons... again ill use my father as an example (as i haven't inherited his terrible shoulders yet, knock on wood) he was a stand out basketball player in highschool with college offers, went with the 'got your mom pregnant had to take responsibilities on' thus not playing college ball, dislocated his left shoulder twice and his right once and can hardly shoot a basketball at age 47, now he also tore both rotator cuffs at the same time which is a contributing factor, but still dislocations tend to limit mobility more then separations... hope this helps a little....
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby RenPastana » Sun May 10, 2009 12:43 pm

bazzy_51 wrote:
socceryank wrote:
RenPastana wrote:I missed how he came down and only saw him lying on the ground in fervent pain while grabbing his left shoulder...

Per rotoworld
Aramis Ramirez suffered a dislocated left shoulder Friday after diving for a ball on third base.
Uh oh. No timetable for his return was given, but this isn't good news. On the bright side, it isn't a separated shoulder, which is significantly worse due to ligament tears. A detailed prognosis will be known after medical officials examine him further. Mike Fontenot shifted to third from second while Aaron Miles came in to play second.

Actually, a separated shoulder is typically not as severe as a dislocated shoulder, and involve two different joints of the shoulder. A traumatic dislocation is usually bad news, as it will almost certainly result in ligament tearing that requires surgical correction, but can also cause a rotator cuff or labral tear as well. Unless the shoulder separation is of the most severe type, it usually will not require surgery.


Not entirely true about the dislocation either... like i stated earlier he had shoulder problems in 1998 with Pittsburgh he had what they call a shoulder subluxation (from wiki, the presence of an incomplete or partial dislocation of a joint or organ) which means he has already had, compared to the normal person, severe shoulder trama... my father has had multiple dislocations of his shoulders, and after the first time the doc told him they only get easier to deal with... most people after the first trama, unless its of a totally different nature, only require rehab (you can never rule out surgery)... Again it all depends on which type it is and how severe, im guessing dislocation simply because a separation usually happens with a blow to the top of the shoulder separating, in short, a shoulder separation is an injury to the acromioclavicular joint on the top of the shoulder. The shoulder joint is formed at the junction of three bones: the collarbone (clavicle), the shoulder blade (scapula), and the arm bone (humerus). The scapula and clavicle form the socket of the joint, and the humerus has a round head that fits within this socket. A shoulder separation occurs where the clavicle and the scapula come together. The end of the scapula is called the acromion, and the joint between this part of the scapula and clavicle is called the acromioclavicular joint. When this joint is disrupted, it is called a shoulder separation.

In most cases a shoulder dislocation is, as far a recovery time, easier to get through and quicker then a shoulder separation... BUT, i know there is always a but, shoulder dislocations in the long run for the human are much worse in terms of mobility of the shoulder then a shoulder separation... in more simple terms simply because a dislocation is a strain on the muscles around the joint where as a separation is usually a strain on the tendons... again ill use my father as an example (as i haven't inherited his terrible shoulders yet, knock on wood) he was a stand out basketball player in highschool with college offers, went with the 'got your mom pregnant had to take responsibilities on' thus not playing college ball, dislocated his left shoulder twice and his right once and can hardly shoot a basketball at age 47, now he also tore both rotator cuffs at the same time which is a contributing factor, but still dislocations tend to limit mobility more then separations... hope this helps a little....


The more you guys go into Aramis' injury, the more I cringe and think about trading him for someone like Ryan Franklin...From my personal and individual understanding, this injury is going to take a whole lot of time to heal and one of the side effects seems to be loss of mobility (aka slower bat speed therefore generating less power is my guess?) At this point, as a Aramis owner, I'm more concerned about his own health than his fantasy value to my team, but then again, I've gotta do what I gotta do, and I am debating constantly whether or not to trade him for close to nothing since my DL spots are currently occupied...

What are other Aramis owners doing in this situation?
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby socceryank » Sun May 10, 2009 10:22 pm

bazzy_51 wrote:
socceryank wrote:
RenPastana wrote:I missed how he came down and only saw him lying on the ground in fervent pain while grabbing his left shoulder...

Per rotoworld
Aramis Ramirez suffered a dislocated left shoulder Friday after diving for a ball on third base.
Uh oh. No timetable for his return was given, but this isn't good news. On the bright side, it isn't a separated shoulder, which is significantly worse due to ligament tears. A detailed prognosis will be known after medical officials examine him further. Mike Fontenot shifted to third from second while Aaron Miles came in to play second.

Actually, a separated shoulder is typically not as severe as a dislocated shoulder, and involve two different joints of the shoulder. A traumatic dislocation is usually bad news, as it will almost certainly result in ligament tearing that requires surgical correction, but can also cause a rotator cuff or labral tear as well. Unless the shoulder separation is of the most severe type, it usually will not require surgery.


Not entirely true about the dislocation either... like i stated earlier he had shoulder problems in 1998 with Pittsburgh he had what they call a shoulder subluxation (from wiki, the presence of an incomplete or partial dislocation of a joint or organ) which means he has already had, compared to the normal person, severe shoulder trama... my father has had multiple dislocations of his shoulders, and after the first time the doc told him they only get easier to deal with... most people after the first trama, unless its of a totally different nature, only require rehab (you can never rule out surgery)... Again it all depends on which type it is and how severe, im guessing dislocation simply because a separation usually happens with a blow to the top of the shoulder separating, in short, a shoulder separation is an injury to the acromioclavicular joint on the top of the shoulder. The shoulder joint is formed at the junction of three bones: the collarbone (clavicle), the shoulder blade (scapula), and the arm bone (humerus). The scapula and clavicle form the socket of the joint, and the humerus has a round head that fits within this socket. A shoulder separation occurs where the clavicle and the scapula come together. The end of the scapula is called the acromion, and the joint between this part of the scapula and clavicle is called the acromioclavicular joint. When this joint is disrupted, it is called a shoulder separation.

In most cases a shoulder dislocation is, as far a recovery time, easier to get through and quicker then a shoulder separation... BUT, i know there is always a but, shoulder dislocations in the long run for the human are much worse in terms of mobility of the shoulder then a shoulder separation... in more simple terms simply because a dislocation is a strain on the muscles around the joint where as a separation is usually a strain on the tendons... again ill use my father as an example (as i haven't inherited his terrible shoulders yet, knock on wood) he was a stand out basketball player in highschool with college offers, went with the 'got your mom pregnant had to take responsibilities on' thus not playing college ball, dislocated his left shoulder twice and his right once and can hardly shoot a basketball at age 47, now he also tore both rotator cuffs at the same time which is a contributing factor, but still dislocations tend to limit mobility more then separations... hope this helps a little....


I should have stated my credentials to back up my statements. I am a sports physical therapist that has specialized in the treatment of shoulder injuries, having lectured on the anatomy, biomechanics, pathomechanics and rehabilitation of overhead athletes. For 13 years, I worked with a very well renowned orthopedic surgeon in the field of sports medicine and baseball. I only wanted to state this to illustrate my expertise in this area, not to toot my own horn. :-o

I can appreciate the experiences that your father has gone through with his shoulder problems, but these are 2 different patient populations, with different demands being placed on the shoulder, which affect the return to play prognosis.

A true shoulder dislocation will result in ligamentous damage, with the resultant injury being called a Bankart Lesion. This is caused by a ligament in the front part of the shoulder pulling a piece of the labrum off the bone (if a piece of bone becomes detached as well, it is referred to as a "Boney Bankart") . The end result is an unstable shoulder when the arm is in the "90-90" position, or the cocked position while throwing. This is where the delineation between your father's injury and pro baseball players comes in. A baseball player cannot function for long with a shoulder that is unstable during the throwing motion, which is a position they cannot avoid while playing unless they are a DH. If you add in the possibility of SLAP (superior labrum) tear or rotator cuff tear (think of Kenny Lofton), you are looking at a very long recovery time.

Basketball players, on the other hand, can have some success with rehab instead of surgery because they do not have to place their shoulder in that same position where the instability would present itself. The situations in which basketball players get into trouble is when they grab a rebound overhead, and an opponent slaps their arm back over their head, which would be a similar unstable position.

The reference to shoulder dislocations being "easier" to deal with is true for the average person; first time dislocations will typically require some form of muscle relaxer to allow the shoulder to be put back into place. However, each successive dislocation is usually easier to reduce (put back in place). It is also true that it is easier to recover from each successive dislocation, as long as your job, lifestyle, sport do not require you to consistently put your shoulder in that unstable position.

Your statement that dislocations are a "strain on the muscles" and "separations are a strain on the tendons" is incorrect. Structurally, they both affect ligaments.

There is no doubt that separations hurt like hell initially. But as long as there isn't a complete disruption of all the ligaments associated with that joint (acromioclavicular ligaments AND sternoclavicular ligaments), the best course is conservative treatment of rehab, which would typically be anywhere from 3-6 weeks. Again, much of it depends on the severity of the damage done. Within that time, an athlete shoulder be able to restore full mobility. If it was me, I'll take the shoulder separation any day of the week. ;-D

Sorry to hear about your father's situation now, having problems shooting hoops. :-t But that reinforces the concept that dislocations, especially those that have a concommittant rotator cuff tear, need surgical correction. If he had been a college or pro athlete, he almost assuredly would have required surgery to compete. The only lingering effects from a separation would be a somewhat noticeable protrusion at the top of his shoulder at the AC joint.

I hope this didn't come across as snooty or over the top; just wanted to provide some expert insight into the matter. In all actuality, all bets are off until more specifics are known regarding the severity of the damage done.

In the fantasy world, I also have to find a replacement for ARam!
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby SlightlyStoopid » Mon May 11, 2009 2:22 am

Thanks socceryank. It didn't come across snooty or anything like that. Just straight forward qualified advice on how the injury could effect ARam. That's the kind of info I'd like to hear more of on this board.
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby stcardinal » Mon May 11, 2009 5:03 pm

He was just dropped in my league. Roto said he'll be out for at least two months. I'm wondering if I should pick him up.
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby bazzy_51 » Wed May 13, 2009 1:20 am

socceryank wrote:
bazzy_51 wrote:
socceryank wrote:Actually, a separated shoulder is typically not as severe as a dislocated shoulder, and involve two different joints of the shoulder. A traumatic dislocation is usually bad news, as it will almost certainly result in ligament tearing that requires surgical correction, but can also cause a rotator cuff or labral tear as well. Unless the shoulder separation is of the most severe type, it usually will not require surgery.


Not entirely true about the dislocation either... like i stated earlier he had shoulder problems in 1998 with Pittsburgh he had what they call a shoulder subluxation (from wiki, the presence of an incomplete or partial dislocation of a joint or organ) which means he has already had, compared to the normal person, severe shoulder trama... my father has had multiple dislocations of his shoulders, and after the first time the doc told him they only get easier to deal with... most people after the first trama, unless its of a totally different nature, only require rehab (you can never rule out surgery)... Again it all depends on which type it is and how severe, im guessing dislocation simply because a separation usually happens with a blow to the top of the shoulder separating, in short, a shoulder separation is an injury to the acromioclavicular joint on the top of the shoulder. The shoulder joint is formed at the junction of three bones: the collarbone (clavicle), the shoulder blade (scapula), and the arm bone (humerus). The scapula and clavicle form the socket of the joint, and the humerus has a round head that fits within this socket. A shoulder separation occurs where the clavicle and the scapula come together. The end of the scapula is called the acromion, and the joint between this part of the scapula and clavicle is called the acromioclavicular joint. When this joint is disrupted, it is called a shoulder separation.

In most cases a shoulder dislocation is, as far a recovery time, easier to get through and quicker then a shoulder separation... BUT, i know there is always a but, shoulder dislocations in the long run for the human are much worse in terms of mobility of the shoulder then a shoulder separation... in more simple terms simply because a dislocation is a strain on the muscles around the joint where as a separation is usually a strain on the tendons... again ill use my father as an example (as i haven't inherited his terrible shoulders yet, knock on wood) he was a stand out basketball player in highschool with college offers, went with the 'got your mom pregnant had to take responsibilities on' thus not playing college ball, dislocated his left shoulder twice and his right once and can hardly shoot a basketball at age 47, now he also tore both rotator cuffs at the same time which is a contributing factor, but still dislocations tend to limit mobility more then separations... hope this helps a little....


I should have stated my credentials to back up my statements. I am a sports physical therapist that has specialized in the treatment of shoulder injuries, having lectured on the anatomy, biomechanics, pathomechanics and rehabilitation of overhead athletes. For 13 years, I worked with a very well renowned orthopedic surgeon in the field of sports medicine and baseball. I only wanted to state this to illustrate my expertise in this area, not to toot my own horn. :-o

I can appreciate the experiences that your father has gone through with his shoulder problems, but these are 2 different patient populations, with different demands being placed on the shoulder, which affect the return to play prognosis.

A true shoulder dislocation will result in ligamentous damage, with the resultant injury being called a Bankart Lesion. This is caused by a ligament in the front part of the shoulder pulling a piece of the labrum off the bone (if a piece of bone becomes detached as well, it is referred to as a "Boney Bankart") . The end result is an unstable shoulder when the arm is in the "90-90" position, or the cocked position while throwing. This is where the delineation between your father's injury and pro baseball players comes in. A baseball player cannot function for long with a shoulder that is unstable during the throwing motion, which is a position they cannot avoid while playing unless they are a DH. If you add in the possibility of SLAP (superior labrum) tear or rotator cuff tear (think of Kenny Lofton), you are looking at a very long recovery time.

Basketball players, on the other hand, can have some success with rehab instead of surgery because they do not have to place their shoulder in that same position where the instability would present itself. The situations in which basketball players get into trouble is when they grab a rebound overhead, and an opponent slaps their arm back over their head, which would be a similar unstable position.

The reference to shoulder dislocations being "easier" to deal with is true for the average person; first time dislocations will typically require some form of muscle relaxer to allow the shoulder to be put back into place. However, each successive dislocation is usually easier to reduce (put back in place). It is also true that it is easier to recover from each successive dislocation, as long as your job, lifestyle, sport do not require you to consistently put your shoulder in that unstable position.

Your statement that dislocations are a "strain on the muscles" and "separations are a strain on the tendons" is incorrect. Structurally, they both affect ligaments.

There is no doubt that separations hurt like hell initially. But as long as there isn't a complete disruption of all the ligaments associated with that joint (acromioclavicular ligaments AND sternoclavicular ligaments), the best course is conservative treatment of rehab, which would typically be anywhere from 3-6 weeks. Again, much of it depends on the severity of the damage done. Within that time, an athlete shoulder be able to restore full mobility. If it was me, I'll take the shoulder separation any day of the week. ;-D

Sorry to hear about your father's situation now, having problems shooting hoops. :-t But that reinforces the concept that dislocations, especially those that have a concommittant rotator cuff tear, need surgical correction. If he had been a college or pro athlete, he almost assuredly would have required surgery to compete. The only lingering effects from a separation would be a somewhat noticeable protrusion at the top of his shoulder at the AC joint.

I hope this didn't come across as snooty or over the top; just wanted to provide some expert insight into the matter. In all actuality, all bets are off until more specifics are known regarding the severity of the damage done.

In the fantasy world, I also have to find a replacement for ARam!


socceryank, not saying your right or wrong, but sorry and i may have messed up here for got to put the quotes in there, but aside from my dad and my personal experiences that was quoted from Wiki, now not saying they are 100% correct 100% of the time, but i know they also can't post false information... and don't really know what you called wrong there about dislocations taking out their 'hurt' over time getting worse as that is true with only rehab as it puts strain on those muscles and possibly tendons that they aren't accustomed to, and just 'working them out' isn't going to solve the issue... now do not get me wrong, not starting anything or 'calling you wrong' actually in retrospect im thanking you for your opinion on this issue and glad that we have a person of your caliber here to help with situations like this! but i guess from reports all of this doesn't really matter much now as its looking pretty serious...
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby socceryank » Wed May 13, 2009 2:15 pm

bazzy_51 wrote:
socceryank wrote:
bazzy_51 wrote:
Not entirely true about the dislocation either... like i stated earlier he had shoulder problems in 1998 with Pittsburgh he had what they call a shoulder subluxation (from wiki, the presence of an incomplete or partial dislocation of a joint or organ) which means he has already had, compared to the normal person, severe shoulder trama... my father has had multiple dislocations of his shoulders, and after the first time the doc told him they only get easier to deal with... most people after the first trama, unless its of a totally different nature, only require rehab (you can never rule out surgery)... Again it all depends on which type it is and how severe, im guessing dislocation simply because a separation usually happens with a blow to the top of the shoulder separating, in short, a shoulder separation is an injury to the acromioclavicular joint on the top of the shoulder. The shoulder joint is formed at the junction of three bones: the collarbone (clavicle), the shoulder blade (scapula), and the arm bone (humerus). The scapula and clavicle form the socket of the joint, and the humerus has a round head that fits within this socket. A shoulder separation occurs where the clavicle and the scapula come together. The end of the scapula is called the acromion, and the joint between this part of the scapula and clavicle is called the acromioclavicular joint. When this joint is disrupted, it is called a shoulder separation.

In most cases a shoulder dislocation is, as far a recovery time, easier to get through and quicker then a shoulder separation... BUT, i know there is always a but, shoulder dislocations in the long run for the human are much worse in terms of mobility of the shoulder then a shoulder separation... in more simple terms simply because a dislocation is a strain on the muscles around the joint where as a separation is usually a strain on the tendons... again ill use my father as an example (as i haven't inherited his terrible shoulders yet, knock on wood) he was a stand out basketball player in highschool with college offers, went with the 'got your mom pregnant had to take responsibilities on' thus not playing college ball, dislocated his left shoulder twice and his right once and can hardly shoot a basketball at age 47, now he also tore both rotator cuffs at the same time which is a contributing factor, but still dislocations tend to limit mobility more then separations... hope this helps a little....


I should have stated my credentials to back up my statements. I am a sports physical therapist that has specialized in the treatment of shoulder injuries, having lectured on the anatomy, biomechanics, pathomechanics and rehabilitation of overhead athletes. For 13 years, I worked with a very well renowned orthopedic surgeon in the field of sports medicine and baseball. I only wanted to state this to illustrate my expertise in this area, not to toot my own horn. :-o

I can appreciate the experiences that your father has gone through with his shoulder problems, but these are 2 different patient populations, with different demands being placed on the shoulder, which affect the return to play prognosis.

A true shoulder dislocation will result in ligamentous damage, with the resultant injury being called a Bankart Lesion. This is caused by a ligament in the front part of the shoulder pulling a piece of the labrum off the bone (if a piece of bone becomes detached as well, it is referred to as a "Boney Bankart") . The end result is an unstable shoulder when the arm is in the "90-90" position, or the cocked position while throwing. This is where the delineation between your father's injury and pro baseball players comes in. A baseball player cannot function for long with a shoulder that is unstable during the throwing motion, which is a position they cannot avoid while playing unless they are a DH. If you add in the possibility of SLAP (superior labrum) tear or rotator cuff tear (think of Kenny Lofton), you are looking at a very long recovery time.

Basketball players, on the other hand, can have some success with rehab instead of surgery because they do not have to place their shoulder in that same position where the instability would present itself. The situations in which basketball players get into trouble is when they grab a rebound overhead, and an opponent slaps their arm back over their head, which would be a similar unstable position.

The reference to shoulder dislocations being "easier" to deal with is true for the average person; first time dislocations will typically require some form of muscle relaxer to allow the shoulder to be put back into place. However, each successive dislocation is usually easier to reduce (put back in place). It is also true that it is easier to recover from each successive dislocation, as long as your job, lifestyle, sport do not require you to consistently put your shoulder in that unstable position.

Your statement that dislocations are a "strain on the muscles" and "separations are a strain on the tendons" is incorrect. Structurally, they both affect ligaments.

There is no doubt that separations hurt like hell initially. But as long as there isn't a complete disruption of all the ligaments associated with that joint (acromioclavicular ligaments AND sternoclavicular ligaments), the best course is conservative treatment of rehab, which would typically be anywhere from 3-6 weeks. Again, much of it depends on the severity of the damage done. Within that time, an athlete shoulder be able to restore full mobility. If it was me, I'll take the shoulder separation any day of the week. ;-D

Sorry to hear about your father's situation now, having problems shooting hoops. :-t But that reinforces the concept that dislocations, especially those that have a concommittant rotator cuff tear, need surgical correction. If he had been a college or pro athlete, he almost assuredly would have required surgery to compete. The only lingering effects from a separation would be a somewhat noticeable protrusion at the top of his shoulder at the AC joint.

I hope this didn't come across as snooty or over the top; just wanted to provide some expert insight into the matter. In all actuality, all bets are off until more specifics are known regarding the severity of the damage done.

In the fantasy world, I also have to find a replacement for ARam!


socceryank, not saying your right or wrong, but sorry and i may have messed up here for got to put the quotes in there, but aside from my dad and my personal experiences that was quoted from Wiki, now not saying they are 100% correct 100% of the time, but i know they also can't post false information... and don't really know what you called wrong there about dislocations taking out their 'hurt' over time getting worse as that is true with only rehab as it puts strain on those muscles and possibly tendons that they aren't accustomed to, and just 'working them out' isn't going to solve the issue... now do not get me wrong, not starting anything or 'calling you wrong' actually in retrospect im thanking you for your opinion on this issue and glad that we have a person of your caliber here to help with situations like this! but i guess from reports all of this doesn't really matter much now as its looking pretty serious...


I wasn't intending to call you out or anything at all like that and I hope you didn't take it that way; I could tell that much of your info came from Wiki, and there can be a big difference between "book knowledge" and the real world, especially in the field of sports medicine. So much depends on the sport, position played, extent of damage, etc.

The information that I mentioned being incorrect was the comment about dislocations affecting muscles, and separations affecting tendons. In both injuries, the ligaments are the structure that are damaged, typically. You are correct in that long term, the muscles and tendons can become an issue, but that would be more the case with dislocations. Trust me on this one, in most cases, I would take a shoulder separation over a dislocation any day of the week. The other potentially significant factor involved is how the media reports injuries such as this. A dislocation is often referred to as a separation, and vice versa, when they involve two totally separate joints and are completely different injuries. Adding to the confusion is the situation when a shoulder is only partially dislocated and pops back in by itself, which is a subluxation. These situations are what make it difficult to give estimates on recovery and when the athlete can return back to playing before MRI results are known.

Having said all of that, what is the latest on his injury? I haven't heard anything specific about the MRI results. I finally got a chance to see the replay of the injury, and I could not tell if he truly dislocated his shoulder or only partially.

I apologize to all of you that weren't really interested in all of this medical jargon; it is the one area that I can contribute the most information on!
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Re: Aramis Ramirez goes down again

Postby socceryank » Thu May 14, 2009 11:57 pm

This is exactly what I referred to in my previous posting about the media's ignorance on using proper terminology with injuries:
According to Yahoo:
"This was the worst of his three separations, he said, with a doctor having to force the shoulder back in the socket..."
The description by ARam that the doctor had to put the shoulder back into joint clearly indicates a true dislocation, and not a "separation" at all; again, 2 totally different joints with different recoveries.

The Yahoo report went on to indicate that the physicians would re-evaluate after his "recovery" to determine if he needed surgery to "tighten" the joint. This reinforces what I described in earlier postings about the severity of dislocations and the possibility of surgery and prolonged absence from playing.

In any event, this does not seem to bode well for ARam for the rest of the season. If he indeed has had 3 previous dislocations (and not separations as reported), it would indicate that he has a pretty loose shoulder that will require surgery. Expect at least an 8 week absence, but quite possibly season ending.
C M. Montero
1B AGonz
2B Uggla
3B Zimmermann
SS Jeter
OF J Upton, McCutcheon, Choo
Util Kendrys Morales
BN Pena
DL Gardner
SP Gallardo, Bumgarner, Latos, Zimmermann, Luebke, Jaime Garcia, Hughes, Burnett
RP League, Marshall, Betancourt
socceryank
Minor League Mentor
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