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Lots of shortstops struggling?

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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby Ender » Thu May 07, 2009 10:43 pm

runs are not team related. they are a completely individual stat. they are scored by players with high OPS and extra base hits. and if they can steal, all the better. i know this seem weird, but it is true. i have a whole bunch of stats on this, but I feel this is the wrong place to post. (no need to double hijack this post) somewhere there is a thread about all this.


It seems weird because you are completely wrong.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 08, 2009 9:08 am

really.. the rangers led the league in runs scored last year. guess how many individual players they had on the top 15 leader board of individual runs scored? zero is the answer.. i'll find the link.. hold on..
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 08, 2009 9:15 am

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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby Ender » Fri May 08, 2009 9:41 am

You don't seriously think that proves anything do you? I mean nobody is saying the only thing that matters for R is your team but it is obviously important.

The #1 most important part of scoring runs is just playing every day in the meat of the order. But playing every day in the middle of the Red Sox order will score more runs than in the Pirates order. The team does matter.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 08, 2009 9:44 am

if runs were so dependant on the people behind you, then it would only make sense that the best run scorers in the league would always hit in front of the best RBI guys right?

Top 15 in Runs
hanley, pedroia, beltran, wright, berkman, mclouth, reyes, utley, granderson, holliday, roberts, markakis, howard, ludwick, peralta.

top 15 in RBI last year
Howard, Hamilton, Morneau, Cabrera, Wright, A. Gonzalez, Pujols, Delgado, Youkilis, Ludwick, Beltran, Ar. Ramirez, Ibanez, Braun, Berkman

other than the fact the the top half of the mets order is awesome and they produce a crapload of runs, these two lists really have very little to do with each other.

seems like cooincedince to me. there are a few similarities.. but I think Pedroia would big time run scorer where ever he is, and I think Youk would hit 100 RBI for any team..
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 08, 2009 9:48 am

Ender wrote:You don't seriously think that proves anything do you? I mean nobody is saying the only thing that matters for R is your team but it is obviously important.

The #1 most important part of scoring runs is just playing every day in the meat of the order. But playing every day in the middle of the Red Sox order will score more runs than in the Pirates order. The team does matter.



thats interesting that you say playing everyday in the middle of the Red sox order scores more runs than being in the middle of the pirates order. seeing that Mclouth was 6th in the league in runs. pedroia was 2nd, but I don't think that has anything to do with the red sox. it has more to do with the fact that he led the league in doubles adn had 20 SBs.. people that are good a scoring runs are the players that are good at getting themselves into scoring position.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby Ender » Fri May 08, 2009 9:52 am

Well the first problem is your going about this all wrong. You should be looking at R per PA not just total runs. As I stated the single most important part of scoring runs is just playing every day.

An example is Kinsler who scored 1 run per 5.7 PA last season. Peralta who was in that top 15 list scored 1 per 6.4 PA. Kinsler for the Rangers was a better run scorer than Peralta, he just got hurt. But again I'm not saying the player doesn't matter because they most certainly do. But your statement that it is completely 100% player dependent simply isn't true. The better the hitters behind you the more likely you are to score runs.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby knapplc » Fri May 08, 2009 9:58 am

It's interesting to see Dusty Baker's influence on baseball.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 08, 2009 10:11 am

ok. ok. i was probably being a bit hard headed. obviously if you have better hitter behind you, you have a better chance of scoring runs.

I just get frusterated when people say that Runs are a bad fantasy stat, and say that they are arbitrary. because there is a skill to scoring runs and there is a certain type of player that is very good at it, no matter what team they play for.

this all started as someone discredited Markakis' value so far because a lot of his value thus far is in runs scored. but the fact is he is a good at scoring runs. he is and will continue to be perennially on the leader board.
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Re: Lots of shortstops struggling?

Postby Ender » Fri May 08, 2009 10:18 am

Orioles have one of the better lineups in baseball too so I don't think their statement made much sense in the first place. The reason the Orioles stink is 100% because of pitching. They might not have that killer 3/4 that some teams do but that lineup is pretty solid top to bottom, especially if Wieters does even half of what people think he will.
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