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UK bans people for what they say

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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Amazinz » Wed May 06, 2009 3:20 pm

You are remembering incorrectly then because you are absolutely misrepresenting Savage's position. And even if you were right, so what? I'm sure you can see the obvious difference between a civilian demanding that we not give a platform to so and so and a governemnt actually denying access to a person because of an idealogical divide.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby chris8 » Wed May 06, 2009 3:25 pm

thedude wrote:
Jacqui Smith said the people who were banned were those whose views the country 'would not tolerate'.


Jacqui Smith. Possibly the worst Home Secretary the UK has ever had.

There are a number of rumours making the rounds that she's about to lose her Cabinet position after a series of political gaffes, not least of which are some dodgy expense claims. The cynic in me says that she's doing this to try and deflect attention from herself by saying to the British people, "Look at me! I'm banning all these horrible people from our country!"

It ain't gonna work...
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed May 06, 2009 3:30 pm

Amazinz wrote:You are remembering incorrectly then because you are absolutely misrepresenting Savage's position. And even if you were right, so what? I'm sure you can see the obvious difference between a civilian demanding that we not give a platform to so and so and a governemnt actually denying access to a person because of an idealogical divide.

Uhh...yeah. Not sure what you're arguing about here. All I said is that this declaration by the UK is dumb, but--due to personal stances he's taken in the past--I find the irony of Michael Savage being singled out this time humorous. The UK is dumb for this, Michael Savage was dumb for something similar in the past. That's not a "straw man" argument.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Amazinz » Wed May 06, 2009 4:04 pm

Listen I apologize if I'm making an argument where there wasn't one or belaboring this but it is NOT SIMILAR; not even close.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby thedude » Wed May 06, 2009 4:25 pm

chris8 wrote:
thedude wrote:
Jacqui Smith said the people who were banned were those whose views the country 'would not tolerate'.


Jacqui Smith. Possibly the worst Home Secretary the UK has ever had.

There are a number of rumours making the rounds that she's about to lose her Cabinet position after a series of political gaffes, not least of which are some dodgy expense claims. The cynic in me says that she's doing this to try and deflect attention from herself by saying to the British people, "Look at me! I'm banning all these horrible people from our country!"

It ain't gonna work...


A person who makes that kind of remark probably should not have a high ranking government job in a free democratic country. Imagine the uproar this would generate if the United States refused to allow a foreign journalist into the country due to comments he had made (which weren't even directed at the country denying him a visa).
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 06, 2009 4:38 pm

Amazinz wrote:Listen I apologize if I'm making an argument where there wasn't one or belaboring this but it is NOT SIMILAR; not even close.

Well there's certainly points where they contrast with respect to the who, etc. but there are obvious comparisons to be drawn as well. I see the irony in it, despite seeing how far apart they can be labeled as well.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed May 06, 2009 5:21 pm

Amazinz wrote:Listen I apologize if I'm making an argument where there wasn't one or belaboring this but it is NOT SIMILAR; not even close.

I'm not trying to draw a 1-to-1 comparison between Michael Savage calling for someone to be denied entry into his country, and a government official calling for Michael Savage to be denied entry into her country, clearly the latter is far more reprehensible. I just found it funny that someone who once wanted to keep someone out of the country for controversial things he has said is now being kept out of a country for controversial things he has said. It's certainly not exactly the same, but it's similar enough for me to get a kick out of the irony.

Also, you may be right about me misremembering. I listen to Michael Savage almost every day, and I think I remember him saying that Ahmadinejad shouldn't be allowed into the US, but I listen to a lot of talk radio and could very well be confusing Savage with another host.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Madison » Thu May 07, 2009 2:47 am

I opened this thread expecting a chuckle but then I think I got confused! :~(

I mean it seems the self-entitlement has gone global now? As in, if I want to travel to the UK and the UK's government tells me I can't, then the UK's government is wrong? 8-o How the heck is that? I mean what right was I born with that forces the UK to allow me to travel there and them to allow me into their country?

Or am I reading/understanding this thread wrong? :-S :-o :~(
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Amazinz » Thu May 07, 2009 12:59 pm

Actually I think most people do agree that we're born with the right to travel and most countries make agreements along those lines. But really is that what this about? Is about entitlemnt? No.

The U.K. doesn't have to let anyone into their country if they don't want to but it's a completely different animal when they do allow people into their country, those people are respecting their laws, and they start picking and choosing people to deny based on idealogical differences.

Back to Savage... He was blasting a private organization for giving Alphabet a platform. I do not remember him calling for the U.S. to deny him entrance. There is a huge difference IMO between me not wanting my chruch to rent their hall to a pro-abortion speaker and for the U.S. to deny entrance to this country to that same pro-abortion speaker. I don't see the irony.
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Re: UK bans people for what they say

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu May 07, 2009 3:36 pm

Amazinz wrote:Back to Savage... He was blasting a private organization for giving Alphabet a platform. I do not remember him calling for the U.S. to deny him entrance. There is a huge difference IMO between me not wanting my chruch to rent their hall to a pro-abortion speaker and for the U.S. to deny entrance to this country to that same pro-abortion speaker. I don't see the irony.

I was curious as to whether I was completely mistaken when I said I remembered him saying that Ahmadinejad should't be allowed into the country, so I pulled the archives of his show from the day that Ahmadinejad spoke at Columbia and listened to about half of it at work today. While I didn't hear him explicitly say "he should not be allowed in the country," he did say "it's a disgrace to live in a country that would permit this man," "he should have been arrested, tried for crimes agsainst humanity, and executed," and "it's inappropriate to have this killer of American troops speaking in the United States" among other things. Those are paraphrased, and can be taken a number of ways, but certainly to say that someone should be arrested as soon as they step foot on American soil (which he harped on numerous times) is effectively the same as saying he should not be allowed to step foot on American soil. He was much harsher on Columbia University, and rightfully so, but even if he never explicity stated that Ahmadinejad shouldn't be allowed in the country, he certainly advocated as much through other statements. I'm sure if I had time to listen to the entire broadcast from that day, or the days leading up to it, there would be much more.

saying someone shouldn't be able to enter the country + getting mad when someone says you shouldn't be able to enter a country = irony
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