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Commish Forcing Roster Issues

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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby RDD15 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:51 pm

MrSnider wrote:2. Bench player to me means a position player. If I say to you, "Who do the Yanks have one their bench?" you aren't going to name the SPs that aren't starting. Very clearly when you're designing the league and putting in bench spots, you're thinking about how many extra hitters you want to be able to carry.


Absolutely not. I have played in something around 50 fantasy baseball leagues in my life, and in every single one of them, it was allowable and designed that you could put pitchers into a BENCH spot.

I assume that you use some sort of website to run your league? If you feel like continuing to insist that Bench spots are for position players only, please point out one fantasy baseball website that will physically not allow you to put a pitcher in a bench spot. If the bench being only for position players is a standard rule as you insist, then these major websites that host thousands and thousands of leagues would not be allowing you to place pitchers on the bench.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:52 pm

MrSnider wrote:2. Bench player to me means a position player. If I say to you, "Who do the Yanks have one their bench?" you aren't going to name the SPs that aren't starting.

Also, if you want to make this about MLB and not FBB, then if it's the 16th inning and the Yankees have burned through all of their relievers, the announcers will say, "Who do the Yankees have on their bench? Well, Pettitte is supposed to be the starter tomorrow but is warming up in the bullpen now."

You're wrong six ways of Sunday.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:41 am

Matthias wrote:
MrSnider wrote:2. Bench player to me means a position player. If I say to you, "Who do the Yanks have one their bench?" you aren't going to name the SPs that aren't starting.

Also, if you want to make this about MLB and not FBB, then if it's the 16th inning and the Yankees have burned through all of their relievers, the announcers will say, "Who do the Yankees have on their bench? Well, Pettitte is supposed to be the starter tomorrow but is warming up in the bullpen now."

You're wrong six ways of Sunday.



Untrue. He is wrong in only one way. Its a big dang way, but still, only one way.

Seriously, what godawful thought process is that that only position players can be on your bench? First, it means you are ensured of streaming since there is going to be quality pitchers always available (ie, if its a 12 team league only 48 SPs can be owned, meaning that guys 49-70, who may only be a slight downgrade from the 36-48th guys) will ALWAYS be available. It also kills the chance to invest in guys who may break out.

But hey, I hate your entire setup, as having 5 RPs REQUIRED per team is far more then Im willing to go for. RPs play such a (statistically) insignificant portion of the game it would be like requiring teams to carry a defensive replacement and pinch runner.

As much as you want it to be Real Baseball /= Fantasy Baseball.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Eagle Baseball » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:59 pm

I would agree with the manager in this case. To me a setup like this means each team has a 23 player roster and they can fill their roster anyway they wish but they are limited in the number and positions of players that will have their stats count on any given day. I have not been involved in a league that mandates all starting positions must be filled and counting on every day.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Matthias » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:36 pm

Eagle Baseball wrote:I have not been involved in a league that mandates all starting positions must be filled and counting on every day.

It's not about mandating all starting positions be filled; it's about mandating that all starting positions not be exceeded. There's only 5 Bench spots. He doesn't have to fill his starting roster but he can't have more than 5 on the bench. How he juggles that is up to him.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby shawngee03 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:25 pm

Matthias wrote:
Eagle Baseball wrote:I have not been involved in a league that mandates all starting positions must be filled and counting on every day.

It's not about mandating all starting positions be filled; it's about mandating that all starting positions not be exceeded. There's only 5 Bench spots. He doesn't have to fill his starting roster but he can't have more than 5 on the bench. How he juggles that is up to him.


"The commish is making him drop 2 players to add 2 relief pitchers" - i beleive im suppose to say QFT, from the initial post. this is my first time using the QFt, so if i did it wrong let me know (i cant find a smiley that works good, sorry)

i know in yahoo it allows you to have as many bench spots as you want, as long as you dont exceed the max roster spots...lets say 23. and you can start at max the designated starting spots each day. theoretically you could bench your entire team

i liek it that way....i dont like being told i have to start anybody. if im winning in AVG and lets say OPS and batter K, and want to bench my team on sunday bc i cant win the counting stats...why cant i

and if i want to waste opportunities by not filling my starting roster spots each day...thats my option

now if a rule was set up beforehand, stating that you had to fill a full roster each day, or that you could not at any time exceed 5 bench spots...then i can see the point. but under general league set ups...especially on yahoo...that is not the way it is initially set up. or yahoo would not allow it, the way CBS gives you 0 points each day if you have an illegal lineup. yahoo does not, it keeps on counting stats...regardless if your starting spots are filled or not
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Matthias » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:36 pm

shawngee03 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
Eagle Baseball wrote:I have not been involved in a league that mandates all starting positions must be filled and counting on every day.

It's not about mandating all starting positions be filled; it's about mandating that all starting positions not be exceeded. There's only 5 Bench spots. He doesn't have to fill his starting roster but he can't have more than 5 on the bench. How he juggles that is up to him.

"The commish is making him drop 2 players to add 2 relief pitchers" - i beleive im suppose to say QFT, from the initial post. this is my first time using the QFt, so if i did it wrong let me know (i cant find a smiley that works good, sorry)

I'm sure if he dropped 2 players without adding 2 relief pitchers the commissioner really wouldn't care. It's not the adding that's the real issue; it's the dropping. It would be kind of silly not to use your relief spots; they're generally very little downside, but filling the spots really isn't the issue. And really, if you had to fill them and didn't want to, you could choose some reliever that's on the DL or retired but still listed or whatever. He's trying to make this about forcing his roster because that has more of a sympathetic feel to it, but it's really about exceeding the roster spots.
shawngee03 wrote:now if a rule was set up beforehand, stating that you had to fill a full roster each day, or that you could not at any time exceed 5 bench spots...then i can see the point. but under general league set ups...especially on yahoo...that is not the way it is initially set up. or yahoo would not allow it, the way CBS gives you 0 points each day if you have an illegal lineup. yahoo does not, it keeps on counting stats...regardless if your starting spots are filled or not

The way I see it is that you have no more right to fill 7 out of 5 bench spots than you do to fill 5 out of 1 first baseman spots. Frankly, those aren't your spots to fill. And the whole analogy of, "benching players you don't want to play" really isn't the issue. He's not benching starters he doesn't want to start. He's benching starters that he can't fit into his designated lineup. That is what's causing the overflow. So it isn't even possible for him to have a legal lineup and I think that's a crucial difference.

In any case, it's 2 weeks into the season. He has one understanding. The commissioner has another. The commissioner has the right to clarify the rules he set up. If the OP wants to get huffy about it and whine on here to try to get some sympathy (probably to walk back to show the poor commissioner, "See? I was right!") I don't have much sympathy for him. I think he's wrong in his interpretation and I think he's wrong in denying the commissioner the right to clarify the rules as he sees fit. And lastly, he's wrong in all of his wild attempts to find a loophole ("only hitters count against your bench".... pfffttttttt).

p.s. Improper usage of QFT. QFT is when someone makes a point that you agree with, not when you're citing them to support your argument. It's basically saying, "I agree." If you substitute in, "I agree" you'll see why it didn't work.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby shawngee03 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:17 pm

"Quoted For Truth" - "qft" is a label used on Internet forums when someone quotes a debated statement, thereby ensuring that the original statement cannot be edited or deleted by the person being quoted"

QFTed from wikipedia...haha :-b

what exactly does this mean then?

and also it does say QFT means agree...but i was trying to use this definition..which i guess i really dont understand

man i feel like im getting old...is JT still hot?
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby MrSnider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:59 pm

Matthias wrote:
shawngee03 wrote:
Matthias wrote:It's not about mandating all starting positions be filled; it's about mandating that all starting positions not be exceeded. There's only 5 Bench spots. He doesn't have to fill his starting roster but he can't have more than 5 on the bench. How he juggles that is up to him.

"The commish is making him drop 2 players to add 2 relief pitchers" - i beleive im suppose to say QFT, from the initial post. this is my first time using the QFt, so if i did it wrong let me know (i cant find a smiley that works good, sorry)

I'm sure if he dropped 2 players without adding 2 relief pitchers the commissioner really wouldn't care. It's not the adding that's the real issue; it's the dropping. It would be kind of silly not to use your relief spots; they're generally very little downside, but filling the spots really isn't the issue. And really, if you had to fill them and didn't want to, you could choose some reliever that's on the DL or retired but still listed or whatever. He's trying to make this about forcing his roster because that has more of a sympathetic feel to it, but it's really about exceeding the roster spots.
shawngee03 wrote:now if a rule was set up beforehand, stating that you had to fill a full roster each day, or that you could not at any time exceed 5 bench spots...then i can see the point. but under general league set ups...especially on yahoo...that is not the way it is initially set up. or yahoo would not allow it, the way CBS gives you 0 points each day if you have an illegal lineup. yahoo does not, it keeps on counting stats...regardless if your starting spots are filled or not

The way I see it is that you have no more right to fill 7 out of 5 bench spots than you do to fill 5 out of 1 first baseman spots. Frankly, those aren't your spots to fill. And the whole analogy of, "benching players you don't want to play" really isn't the issue. He's not benching starters he doesn't want to start. He's benching starters that he can't fit into his designated lineup. That is what's causing the overflow. So it isn't even possible for him to have a legal lineup and I think that's a crucial difference.

In any case, it's 2 weeks into the season. He has one understanding. The commissioner has another. The commissioner has the right to clarify the rules he set up. If the OP wants to get huffy about it and whine on here to try to get some sympathy (probably to walk back to show the poor commissioner, "See? I was right!") I don't have much sympathy for him. I think he's wrong in his interpretation and I think he's wrong in denying the commissioner the right to clarify the rules as he sees fit. And lastly, he's wrong in all of his wild attempts to find a loophole ("only hitters count against your bench".... pfffttttttt).

p.s. Improper usage of QFT. QFT is when someone makes a point that you agree with, not when you're citing them to support your argument. It's basically saying, "I agree." If you substitute in, "I agree" you'll see why it didn't work.


Interestingly enough, the commissioner clarified the rule by saying it was not required to "start" the players, only to not be able to drop a position to pick up another player. So if you want to pick up a RP but sit him on the bench, that is fine. So now it's not about starting players, but about having the number specified. Does that affect your analysis in any way?

Also, as stated in the original post, I am not the owner involved. Instead, I am an owner who finds the commish's decision to be arbitrary and capricious.
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Re: Commish Forcing Roster Issues

Postby Matthias » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:51 pm

MrSnider wrote:Interestingly enough, the commissioner clarified the rule by saying it was not required to "start" the players, only to not be able to drop a position to pick up another player. So if you want to pick up a RP but sit him on the bench, that is fine. So now it's not about starting players, but about having the number specified. Does that affect your analysis in any way?

Also, as stated in the original post, I am not the owner involved. Instead, I am an owner who finds the commish's decision to be arbitrary and capricious.

Yah, it does. That's why I said:
So it isn't even possible for him to have a legal lineup and I think that's a crucial difference.

Now the commissioner is saying you have to abide by the roster requirements; whether or not you start them is up to you.

It's not what I've been saying throughout but it's a different situation than was presented that I can see the logic of.
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