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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby jfg » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:52 pm

The best offensive player on the team with the 5th best record isn't in the all-star game. :-t
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby silverZ » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:28 pm

jfg wrote:The best offensive player on the team with the 5th best record isn't in the all-star game. :-t


Good. I'd rather have him rest for 3 days then be involved in all that hoop-la.
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Splendid61 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:42 pm

jfg wrote:The best offensive player on the team with the 5th best record isn't in the all-star game. :-t


If Pablo Sandoval continue to producw like he has for the past 2½ months (Remember he was hitting .246 with a .620 OPS and 0 HR, 1 RBI, and 4 R through the first 16 games of the season) and the Giants pitching keeps them in the playoff race, Kung Fu Panda should finish very high in the NL MVP voting.

Pujols basically has the NL MVP sewn up before the ASB. Only a injury (causing him to miss at least 1 month) could take it away from him. Travis Hafner fell all the way to 8th in the 2006 AL MVP voting after missing all of September, but he was nowhere the front runner Pujols is this season in the NL MVP race.

Oddly enough, winning a league MVP award after not being selected to the AS game isn't a rare feat. Justin Morneau did it in 2006 and Jimmy Rollins in 2007.
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Ender » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:03 pm

Kemp is having a better season than Sandoval and has a better track record and he isn't in the all star game, so Sandoval isn't even the biggest offensive snub in the NL.
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:23 pm

Ender wrote:Kemp is having a better season than Sandoval and has a better track record and he isn't in the all star game, so Sandoval isn't even the biggest offensive snub in the NL.

I'm curious how you qualifying Kemp's season as better when Sandoval has almost the exact same OBP and his SLG% is 83 points higher?
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Fade2White12 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:32 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Ender wrote:Kemp is having a better season than Sandoval and has a better track record and he isn't in the all star game, so Sandoval isn't even the biggest offensive snub in the NL.

I'm curious how you qualifying Kemp's season as better when Sandoval has almost the exact same OBP and his SLG% is 83 points higher?


I was wondering the same thing myself. Almost every useful statistic and metric is in Sandoval's favor. Not just OBP and SLG%, but HR, RBI, AVG, K%, K/BB, and even ISO. Kemp has him in what, R and SB?
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:39 pm

Fade2White12 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Ender wrote:Kemp is having a better season than Sandoval and has a better track record and he isn't in the all star game, so Sandoval isn't even the biggest offensive snub in the NL.

I'm curious how you qualifying Kemp's season as better when Sandoval has almost the exact same OBP and his SLG% is 83 points higher?


I was wondering the same thing myself. Almost every useful statistic and metric is in Sandoval's favor. Not just OBP and SLG%, but HR, RBI, AVG, K%, K/BB, and even ISO. Kemp has him in what, R and SB?

Defense? O:-)

Also, it's not fair how you count power four times and speed once. Jack Cust is beating Ellsbury in HR, RBI, SLG, and ISO, and Ellsbury is beating Cust in SB. Which one deserves to be an All-Star? Kemp has the edge in runs, SB, speed factor, BB%, and most importantly, defense. They end up being very close in offense, but Kemp has a huge advantage in defense.

Sandoval: 3.1 WARP, 61.8 wRC, about -1 UZR/150
Kemp: 4.2 WARP, 60.8 wRC, 14.5 UZR/150
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:11 pm

I really had no idea Kemp has been that good defensively this year. The past three years he was nothing special with the glove.
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Fade2White12 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:15 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Defense? O:-)

Also, it's not fair how you count power four times and speed once. Jack Cust is beating Ellsbury in HR, RBI, SLG, and ISO, and Ellsbury is beating Cust in SB. Which one deserves to be an All-Star? Kemp has the edge in runs, SB, speed factor, BB%, and most importantly, defense. They end up being very close in offense, but Kemp has a huge advantage in defense.

Sandoval: 3.1 WARP, 61.8 wRC, about -1 UZR/150
Kemp: 4.2 WARP, 60.8 wRC, 14.5 UZR/150


Ender said, "Sandoval isn't even the biggest offensive snub in the NL." I didn't consider defense since we were talking about who is the bigger All Star snub. All Star voting almost never considers fielding, or only does so negligibly. Only 2 of the top 10 UZR/150 players are actually All Stars this year, while a slew of the league's worst fielders were elected - M Young, Hawpe, Victorino, A Jones, Wright, Tejada, and Bay.

Also, considering what you would have predicted Sandoval's statistics to be vs. those of Kemp, you would have given probably every speed AND power metric to Kemp. Sandoval, who was basically a rookie coming into this season, has been markedly more impressive than Kemp. Although their statistics are somewhat similar offensively, Sandoval completely exceeding all expectations batting in that lineup is remarkable.

I'm not saying that Kemp is not deserving of the team also, as I rather would have seen him as a reserve OF over several of those elected, but I just wouldn't say that Kemp is a bigger snub.
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Re: Pablo Sandoval

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:31 pm

Kemp batting 8th every day isn't exactly a prime spot either, even if it's in the Dodgers lineup. And yeah, Sandoval is the biggest offensive snub, but it's only by one RC. It's not like it isn't close. Defense is worth a look, too, even if people don't give it one.
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