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Verlander's back

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Re: Verlander's back

Postby StlSluggers » Tue May 26, 2009 8:41 am

Has anyone looked at his PitchFx charts from before and after? I checked them out and I swear I don't see much of a difference at all.

What's the big change for him? Spotting his pitches better? Was he tipping?
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue May 26, 2009 10:33 am

StlSluggers wrote:Has anyone looked at his PitchFx charts from before and after? I checked them out and I swear I don't see much of a difference at all.

What's the big change for him? Spotting his pitches better? Was he tipping?


I'm pretty sure A-Rod was tipping all his pitches to everyone.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby Ender » Tue May 26, 2009 10:47 am

StlSluggers wrote:Has anyone looked at his PitchFx charts from before and after? I checked them out and I swear I don't see much of a difference at all.

What's the big change for him? Spotting his pitches better? Was he tipping?


His velocity is up to where it used to be is the big difference. However he has had a good bit of luck both good and as bad as well, a combination of allowing very few groundballs and a lot of line drives and flyballs will catch up to him eventually and I'm not a believer that his K rate will stay so high but on the other hand he isn't stranding nearly as many runners as you'd expect.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby StlSluggers » Tue May 26, 2009 11:04 am

His velocity is up this year over last year, but it hasn't really changed between the time this year when he was terrible and now. Which time frame are you referring to? Actually, in some cases, his velocity is down. Though, I'd consider that a good thing based on the speed of his fastball. ;-)

Certainly not disagreeing with you here, Ender. Just making sure I understand where you're coming from on some of this.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue May 26, 2009 11:18 am

StlSluggers wrote:His velocity is up this year over last year, but it hasn't really changed between the time this year when he was terrible and now. Which time frame are you referring to? Actually, in some cases, his velocity is down. Though, I'd consider that a good thing based on the speed of his fastball. ;-)

Certainly not disagreeing with you here, Ender. Just making sure I understand where you're coming from on some of this.


i thought this was some interesting analysis burried in the fangraphs article re: Rick Knapp

Not really. It’s just how the Twins teach their pitchers to pitch: they are usually one of the AL teams with the fewest walks and the most homeruns given up. I think Rick Knapp saw in Verlander a guy who was trying to be a groundball pitcher and failing. I think the idea was to let Verlander pitch to his strengths, rather than according to some top-down, organizational philosophy that Chuck Hernandez seemed to have. He wanted everyone to be a pitch-to-contact groundball pitcher. That makes sense with a lot of guys. But Verlander wasn’t one of them. As soon as he started putting his fastball at the top of the zone rather than trying to hit the low corners, he was throwing more strikes and getting more punchouts. Sure, the flyballs are eventually going to lead to homeruns. But because balls in the air turn into hits at a lower rate than groundballs, combined with a lower walk rate, I think the idea is that the homeruns he’s going to give up are going to be solo shots.



this...and i think he made some adjustments to his mentality. this is subjective, but instead of looking like "ZOMG I gave up some runs, we're doomed" like he did against the Angels, he now has that "so what, you scored a run, i'll work on getting the next 10 guys out" look

i am somewhat worried since he has typically broken down in the 2nd half, but right now he is electric
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby Ender » Tue May 26, 2009 11:32 am

Which time frame are you referring to?


Sorry, I thought we were talking this year vs last year.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby StlSluggers » Tue May 26, 2009 11:35 am

Ender wrote:
Which time frame are you referring to?


Sorry, I thought we were talking this year vs last year.

I'm curious what seemed to magically click for him between his horrendous start and his new found awesomeness.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby Ender » Tue May 26, 2009 11:49 am

StlSluggers wrote:I'm curious what seemed to magically click for him between his horrendous start and his new found awesomeness.


Not much changed, his control probably got a little better.

Lets disregard the 1st start because well it was his 1st start of the year and lots of guys are off for that one.

His second start he pitched extremely well just didn't go deep into the game. The third game he pitched well but they just happened to string together all of their hits in one inning. The 4th game has an ugly line but the damage was just a 3 run HR and then a bunch of singles strung together. Those types of things are going to happen at times. All peripherals were pointing towards buy low on Verlander through his 'bad stretch'. ERA is just a terrible stat to look at for judging players unless you have a season+ of data to look at.
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby RedHopeful » Tue May 26, 2009 4:47 pm

Anyone else read about Verlander's hatred on Yahoo almost a week ago? It's what Darth Vadar always tried to get Luke to do. :-B
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Re: Verlander's back

Postby thebawler » Tue May 26, 2009 5:02 pm

lol the powa of the dark side
V.Mart, P.Fielder, Alexi.R, D.Wright, M.Young, S.Drew, D.Lee, A.Dunn, C.Granderson, N.Cruz, G.Jones, Aramis.R

C.Sabathia, S.Baker, J.Sheilds, D.Price, J.Verlander, J.Lackey, M.Cain, T.Hanson. F. Rodriguez, J. Valverde, B. Lidge, J.A. Happ, M. Latos
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