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the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

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Re: the official

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:58 pm

Is there any data out there comparing individual QS to W among SP across seasons (or hell, even 1 would at least be cool)? Comparing the differential between number of QS a pitcher puts up and how many W they earn? I'd be interested to see some of the extremes, the averages, etc.
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Re: the official

Postby walkoffblast » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:39 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Is there any data out there comparing individual QS to W among SP across seasons (or hell, even 1 would at least be cool)? Comparing the differential between number of QS a pitcher puts up and how many W they earn? I'd be interested to see some of the extremes, the averages, etc.


The problem here is that like ender was getting at neither is particularly good. Wins is overrated and QS underrated but that is only relative to their actual worth for a pitcher. It is hard to find this stuff because its somewhat a waste of time even if it would be interesting. Just like I was mildly curious the relationship between slugging% and average earlier this offseason as relates to player value but its not really the type of thing that is going to be looked at. Avg and Wins are pretty far from the stats that people doing research are interested in. I have read that pitchers generally win about 75 percent of their QS but from what I remember its far from static. It would be relatively easy to put together a simplistic measure of this but it might not give you much on what you really want know.

A few possibilities from eyeballing the top lists from last year. To me the top QS people look as a group more consistent to be good in era/whip. If you know wins you can make a pretty good guess on QS. If you know QS then wins is still a crapshoot. All three I would have expected.

One other point QS do have some bias, park for example, but you can draft for that just like people are saying you can draft for teams with offenses. The main difference is that the QS bias are going to be a lot less unpredictable. You flat out cannot predict relief wins and run support for a singular pitcher is surprisingly hard. How a park plays especially for a certain pitcher substantially less hard to predict. It still boils down to preference.

As long as you are not park adjusting, which you will not be in fantasy, then no matter what you do you are always going to be looking at a list that is only so good compared to real life value.
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Re: the official

Postby auclairkeithbc » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:40 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Is there any data out there comparing individual QS to W among SP across seasons (or hell, even 1 would at least be cool)? Comparing the differential between number of QS a pitcher puts up and how many W they earn? I'd be interested to see some of the extremes, the averages, etc.


I hope there isn't any such data. Facts would really kill this debate.
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Re: the official

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:07 pm

auclairkeithbc wrote:I hope there isn't any such data. Facts would really kill this debate.


I think this is true with a lot of the BS we've been seeing around here lately. :-P
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby DaShiz23 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:20 am

AAAHHHHHRRRRGGGGHHHHGGGG!!!!!!!1!

I officially hate wins as a category!!!
Dead last in wins in a 12 team roto! Dead friggin last!
I know it's early, but when do you actually consider punting, and going with 9 closers/relief pitchers?
If I am going to punt a category, I rather do it by choice.

Wins, you is a jerk.
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby lastingsgriller » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:52 am

how awesome is it when you send both jonathan sanchez adn chad billingsley out to the hill pitching against each other. both have very solid starts and neither of them can get a win for you. wins are jerks.
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby DaShiz23 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:15 pm

Sean Marshall. :~(
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby kab21 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:34 pm

Max Scherzer has a legitimate gripe here. He still doesn't have a MLB win in his career despite pitching great last year and throwing 6 scoreless innings tonight.
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby j24jags » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:39 pm

kab21 wrote:Max Scherzer has a legitimate gripe here. He still doesn't have a MLB win in his career despite pitching great last year and throwing 6 scoreless innings tonight.

Wow I didn't realize he has no MLB wins. Just checked, coming into tonight he's 0-6 with a 3.44 ERA (10 starts + some relief appearances), then tonight 6 shutout winnings, no-decision...stinks for him :-t
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Re: the official "I hate wins as a category" thread

Postby auclairkeithbc » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:21 pm

j24jags wrote:
kab21 wrote:Max Scherzer has a legitimate gripe here. He still doesn't have a MLB win in his career despite pitching great last year and throwing 6 scoreless innings tonight.

Wow I didn't realize he has no MLB wins. Just checked, coming into tonight he's 0-6 with a 3.44 ERA (10 starts + some relief appearances), then tonight 6 shutout winnings, no-decision...stinks for him :-t


well, he probably knows better than to draft himself.
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