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ethics question...

Postby intense » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:58 pm

Im am the commish for my yahoo 12 man head to head 5x5 league. I have tried to trade with almost every team since the draft on Saturday and no one really seems to want to deal.

Earlier today I made a trade with someone giving Chipper Jones and getting Jason Schmidt in return.... I needed pitching and he needed OF and Chipper is his fav player, so the trade is only slightly uneven.

Now comes to my question... The same owner now has offered me Pujols for Big Frank and Smoltz... Am I wrong to accept this deal as the commissioner? This is a $10 league... The managers can vote against trades if they wish. How bad are these deals in my favor? I am giving up a top 3 closerman and leaving myself with only Nathan and Isringhausen in the pen...also, Frank had a big year last year and he may repeat.


What do you guys think I should do? I want to run a good league, but I do want to win... am I being unfair?
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Postby SoxFanPJ » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:03 pm

The first deal is fine in my opinion. Schmidt has health questions given his elbow surgery.

The second deal Thomas and Smoltz for Pujols is pretty bad. As commish, you are in a tough spot. In my opinion I would accept the deal and let the league vote on it. Likely it will get vetoed, but that seems like the fairest way to handle the situation.
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Postby intense » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:06 pm

SoxFanPJ wrote:The first deal is fine in my opinion. Schmidt has health questions given his elbow surgery.

The second deal Thomas and Smoltz for Pujols is pretty bad. As commish, you are in a tough spot. In my opinion I would accept the deal and let the league vote on it. Likely it will get vetoed, but that seems like the fairest way to handle the situation.



I really want Puljos I wonder if I threw in someone else like Burnett or something it would make it any better (and free up a roster spot, hehe).....I dont want to piss people off before the season even starts with having a killer squad.
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Postby RynMan » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:08 pm

i can see how he would think he's gettin a good deal. i would do the deal, if the league vetoes it then say ok, thats fair....if they dont then let the guy think he has done a good deal.

i personally dont believe in veto'ing trades because no1 is forcing guys to do trades, they give their permission because they think they are doing something to improve their team. so what if a guy thinks smoltz and thomas are worth more than pujols? who are we to say, "no- your wrong, pujols is better than both of those guys together". what im saying is people do trades based on what THEY believe to be fair, so in a sense any deal where to sides come to an agreement is fair in my mind.
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Postby mocabeenow » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:14 pm

amen to that Rynman. i disapprove of vetoing. That's takes away from the experience of owning and managing a fantasy team. i would let the trade go through!
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Postby SoxFanPJ » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:27 pm

Philisophically I also do not like vetoing, I had a deal of M. Barret for G. Sheffield 2 years ago, while Barrett was going on a homer binge at the beginning of the season vetoed.

However this early in the year one of two things could happen. The league could get pissed at the commish and some might refuse to deal with him during the season. Or They might suspect collusion given the two teams doing two trades so closely together and sour on the league entirely.

I would view having a vote as the greater good of the league as commissioner.
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Postby ramble2 » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:20 am

Intense, I hear your pain. I'm commish of my league and all of my trades are scrutinized far more than any other trades. I've been told my more than one league member that I have a duty to make sure that my trades are fair because I am setting the tone and standard in the league.

Though I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, if everyone else in the league believes it then there is something to it. There have been cases where I've gone back and sweetened a deal I made just to keep people happy in my league - and to prevent them from making horrible one-sided trades.

I'd suggest throwing in Burnett, if you can stand to lose him. Pujols for Thomas and Smoltz isn't completely outrageous, though it will raise some eyebrows. If tossing in Burnett is relatively painless for you, do it.
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Postby hooligan1 » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:56 am

I also hate vetoing trades or having them vetoed. If vetoing is allowed, then you really don't have control over your own team. Also I think sometimes some owners just veto for the sake of vetoing, as if they don't want anybody to make any changes to their team...... BS!!

Neither of the aforementioned trades is horribly out of whack. They really should both go through. Who am I to tell owner A that his team is better off keeping Pujols than dealing him for Thomas and Smoltz...?

In summary, I HATE vetos. I do play in the publics, but otherwise generally won't play in leagues that allow trade vetoing. I want to run my team the way I want to run it!!
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Postby AcidRock23 » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 am

SoxFanPJ wrote:Philisophically I also do not like vetoing, I had a deal of M. Barret for G. Sheffield 2 years ago, while Barrett was going on a homer binge at the beginning of the season vetoed.

However this early in the year one of two things could happen. The league could get pissed at the commish and some might refuse to deal with him during the season. Or They might suspect collusion given the two teams doing two trades so closely together and sour on the league entirely.

I would view having a vote as the greater good of the league as commissioner.


Or, the 3rd thing, which I admit seems improbable, Pujols goes down again, misses a lot of time and everyone razzes intense mercilessly for unloading the Big Hurt right before he hits 45 HR. What we are missing is how the teams are. If the Pujols trader has a backup plan and feels he needs a dude who some have rated is the best reliever MORE than the dude that everyone feels is the best hitter (again, pretty improbably but, well, you know...), then he should be allowed to trade him.

I can't imagine anybody colluding in a league though, as everyone is pretty cutthroat in ours. Also, it's so early in the year that trading is kind of silly and pointless anyway. We still have almost 3 weeks to go and who knows what will happen. I'd think that if the guy wants to trade Al for Frank and Smoltz, not something I'd probably do personally, as Frank AND Smoltz are a bit old for my tastes, it should be allowed to go through.

If you don't have voting on trades in your league for everyone though, you should NOT be subjected to 'extra' scrutiny or supervision, just because you are the commissioner. If you start that now, you are not going to be able to deal all year. Getting 12 guys to agree on what does or doesn't constitute a 'fair' trade is almost impossible. Even getting 6 of them to agree would be pretty tricky. If you are the only one who can be vetoed, the whole league will be destabilized and it will not be likely to be as much fun for anyone unless the winner is a complete idiot!!

I don't see being the commissioner as much more than being a volunteer to do the clerical work associated w/ a league. Occasionally someone needs to be smacked upside of the head or something like that but, even though I'm the commissioner of our league, there is no shortage of 'helpers' to deliver smackdowns on a daily basis when people suspect somebody's up to something. Or really, every day about 8:02, the Cubs/ Cards snipers start shooting at each other as I am in Central, IL, right on the 'border'!!
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Postby jbuk » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:19 am

Accept it and see if anyone vetos it. Both trades are in your favour, but neither are stupidly unfair.

I can see what you're worried about though, people can get suspicious if they see the commish making dodgy looking trades, as you have the ultimate say in whether it goes through or not.

Something like that is happening in one of my leagues (which I posted in the trade forum), but was ridiculously skewed, and the commisioner and the player he was trading with were friends. I wouldn't veto either of your trades personally.
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