Don't play coy. You made this flippant comment about how on earth could I possibly reach the conclusion that Verlander's numbers were trending negatively. Like I was making it up or pulling it out of thin air with no support. And that was where my response was coming from. But you know that. You know the numbers bear the case.
Ignore 2005 if you want., whatever. The numbers speak for themselves. Feel free to rationalize them if you want, it still doesn't change the fact that his fastball velocity has been declining while his offspeed pitches have been getting faster. That's a dangerous combination. And one I can't imagine any coach would recommend. Feel free to actually cite evidence of your claim that his coach wanted him to start throwing softer.
And if your response is "well, his coaches told him to do that. They wanted him to pitch to contact." If so, it's odd that his BB rate has also increased steadily from '06-'08 (including precipitously last year.) when he's pitching to contact.
I made no comment about his ERA or how many losses he had, or even his defense. There's no question that he had bad luck last year (specifically LOB%) and that the improved defense should help (though the impact is going to be limited if his FB/GB rates continue to decline).
My support for his regression is that his core peripherals have gotten worse - most notably control and velocity - and they have.
And no, I'm not responding due to yesterday's game - that's immaterial.
Don't play coy. You made this flippant comment about how on earth could I possibly reach the conclusion that Verlander's numbers were trending negatively. Like I was making it up or pulling it out of thin air with no support. And that was where my response was coming from. But you know that. You know the numbers bear the case.
Ignore 2005 if you want., whatever. The numbers speak for themselves. Feel free to rationalize them if you want, it still doesn't change the fact that his fastball velocity has been declining while his offspeed pitches have been getting faster. That's a dangerous combination. And one I can't imagine any coach would recommend. Feel free to actually cite evidence of your claim that his coach wanted him to start throwing softer.
And if your response is "well, his coaches told him to do that. They wanted him to pitch to contact." If so, it's odd that his BB rate has also increased steadily from '06-'08 (including precipitously last year.) when he's pitching to contact.
I made no comment about his ERA or how many losses he had, or even his defense. There's no question that he had bad luck last year (specifically LOB%) and that the improved defense should help (though the impact is going to be limited if his FB/GB rates continue to decline).
My support for his regression is that his core peripherals have gotten worse - most notably control and velocity - and they have.
And no, I'm not responding due to yesterday's game - that's immaterial.
You were saying hotshot???
This just proves you had no clue as to what you were talking about. Like I said. Whatever. Wow look at that decline in velocity everyone(fastest of any starter in the majors) and 12-.5 k per 9, its a definte sign of decline..................
Don't play coy. You made this flippant comment about how on earth could I possibly reach the conclusion that Verlander's numbers were trending negatively. Like I was making it up or pulling it out of thin air with no support. And that was where my response was coming from. But you know that. You know the numbers bear the case.
Ignore 2005 if you want., whatever. The numbers speak for themselves. Feel free to rationalize them if you want, it still doesn't change the fact that his fastball velocity has been declining while his offspeed pitches have been getting faster. That's a dangerous combination. And one I can't imagine any coach would recommend. Feel free to actually cite evidence of your claim that his coach wanted him to start throwing softer.
And if your response is "well, his coaches told him to do that. They wanted him to pitch to contact." If so, it's odd that his BB rate has also increased steadily from '06-'08 (including precipitously last year.) when he's pitching to contact.
I made no comment about his ERA or how many losses he had, or even his defense. There's no question that he had bad luck last year (specifically LOB%) and that the improved defense should help (though the impact is going to be limited if his FB/GB rates continue to decline).
My support for his regression is that his core peripherals have gotten worse - most notably control and velocity - and they have.
And no, I'm not responding due to yesterday's game - that's immaterial.
You were saying hotshot???
This just proves you had no clue as to what you were talking about. Like I said. Whatever. Wow look at that decline in velocity everyone(fastest of any starter in the majors) and 12-.5 k per 9, its a definte sign of decline..................
Yeah, because my recommendation to keep both Josh Johnson and Erik Bedard would have worked out so horribly for that owner.
All of the evidence showed that his velocity was declining. Nothing I wrote was wrong. His peripherals definitely had been getting worse. No two ways about it. You claimed that it was due to the pitching coach, and I asked you to prove you had any evidence of this and weren't just pulling it out of thin air. You never did that.
Verlander's velocity has now gone back to where it was in '06 when he was awesome. Verlander is an awesome pitcher when he's throwing 95+. He sucks when he's throwing 92.
All of the evidence available showed that it was more likely that he would be throwing 92 like he had the previous two years. If you had any evidence to actually support your claim that his coaches told him to pitch slower, I would have more than welcomed it. But you didn't.
And ummm, before you get hurt sucking yourself off, realize that both Bedard and Johnson are ranked higher than Verlander right now in every player rater.
So basically, even with underestimating Verlander, I was still right.
Curtis Pride wrote:Yeah, because my recommendation to keep both Josh Johnson and Erik Bedard would have worked out so horribly for that owner.
All of the evidence showed that his velocity was declining. Nothing I wrote was wrong. His peripherals definitely had been getting worse. No two ways about it. You claimed that it was due to the pitching coach, and I asked you to prove you had any evidence of this and weren't just pulling it out of thin air. You never did that.
Verlander's velocity has now gone back to where it was in '06 when he was awesome. Verlander is an awesome pitcher when he's throwing 95+. He sucks when he's throwing 92.
All of the evidence available showed that it was more likely that he would be throwing 92 like he had the previous two years. If you had any evidence to actually support your claim that his coaches told him to pitch slower, I would have more than welcomed it. But you didn't.
And ummm, before you get hurt sucking yourself off, realize that both Bedard and Johnson are ranked higher than Verlander right now in every player rater.
So basically, even with underestimating Verlander, I was still right.
So own that.
Just thought I'd bump this..........talk about being completely owned. What do those "Player raters" say now?
While it's always nice to prove someone wrong, thats not the point of the Cafe... We're here to offer help based on personal opinion and factual evidence...
Everyone makes mistakes so please, quit gloating and move on dude...
Teixeira, Arod, A. Dunn Pitcher worth consideration: Velander, Josh Johnson, Papelbon 2 Practice Squad players that do not count against keepers: Jay Bruce, Clayton Kershaw Minor League Squad that do not count against keepers or roster postion: Wieters, Price, Bret Cecil, Fernando Martinez, Jason Heyward
Listen Berkman doesn't have OF eligibility anymore. Tex is a better option at this point. Dunn is a big bopping OF who you have to keep. He's as consistant as they come in fantasy despite the average average and ks. But you know what your going to get from him. I might also point out that he improved his BA and discipline in 09. in 10 I expect another big season.
Good luck.
Josh Johnson is a must keep over Bedard (that is not even close). I didn't even bother reading all the arguments in this long thread.
The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be!
Cafe Home
Fantasy Football
Fantasy Basketball
Fantasy Hockey
by Curtis Pride » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:26 pm 
