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Tesla Model S

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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby markj11 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:33 pm

Tavish wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Matthias wrote:Article today about this in the NYTimes.

The company is applying for $250MM - $300MM in loans from the gov't to build a production plant. And they estimate that with the savings in fuel costs, the lifetime price comparison is the same as buying a $35,000 Ford Taurus.


How many years of ownership before you see that kind of savings on fuel costs? Most people don't drive their car until it dies.

Well the estimates I've seen for cost per mile for charging the Tesla Roadster is around $.03 per mile. Just a basic estimate for a gas car at 25 mpg (which is slightly higher than the national average) and $2 per gallon (again slightly higher than national average) would be $.08 per mile. So to save $15K in fuel alone it would take 300K miles which certainly wouldn't work. Of course if the price of gas rises and the cost of electricity stayed steady that number would fall rather quickly.


It would be tough to put 300K on that car since you can't go more than 150miles from your house.
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Matthias » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:56 pm

Tavish wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Matthias wrote:Article today about this in the NYTimes.

The company is applying for $250MM - $300MM in loans from the gov't to build a production plant. And they estimate that with the savings in fuel costs, the lifetime price comparison is the same as buying a $35,000 Ford Taurus.


How many years of ownership before you see that kind of savings on fuel costs? Most people don't drive their car until it dies.

Well the estimates I've seen for cost per mile for charging the Tesla Roadster is around $.03 per mile. Just a basic estimate for a gas car at 25 mpg (which is slightly higher than the national average) and $2 per gallon (again slightly higher than national average) would be $.08 per mile. So to save $15K in fuel alone it would take 300K miles which certainly wouldn't work. Of course if the price of gas rises and the cost of electricity stayed steady that number would fall rather quickly.

Maybe that number included the $7500 tax credit; let me check the article. Nope. The $50,000 price already has that built in.

From the article:
It is also affordable, at least according to Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive. At $57,400 ($49,900 after tax credits), it is half the price of Tesla’s $109,000 Roadster — but more expensive than the average sedan


“We’ve really worked super hard to make this as affordable as possible,” Mr. Musk said. He expects that as gas prices climb, electric vehicles will become more economically attractive to car buyers.

After factoring in savings on gas, he said, the car is comparable to a $35,000 sedan.
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Tavish » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:11 pm

If he is basing it purely on fuel savings it seems like a pretty big stretch unless they are estimating gas prices to get back into the $4 per gallon range. Certainly not unthinkable, but still tough to base the numbers on. There are other savings that would be part of upkeep outside of fuel though like no oil changes and less brake maintenance.
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby markj11 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:15 pm

Tavish wrote:If he is basing it purely on fuel savings it seems like a pretty big stretch unless they are estimating gas prices to get back into the $4 per gallon range. Certainly not unthinkable, but still tough to base the numbers on. There are other savings that would be part of upkeep outside of fuel though like no oil changes and less brake maintenance.


My electric bill also went up when gas prices went up.
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Madison » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:39 pm

markj11 wrote:
Tavish wrote:If he is basing it purely on fuel savings it seems like a pretty big stretch unless they are estimating gas prices to get back into the $4 per gallon range. Certainly not unthinkable, but still tough to base the numbers on. There are other savings that would be part of upkeep outside of fuel though like no oil changes and less brake maintenance.


My electric bill also went up when gas prices went up.


Don't forget heating bills as well (for those that use gas). I heard some real horror stories last year or the year before about $300+ gas heating bills on 800 square foot apartments. 8-o
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Metroid » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:39 pm

markj11 wrote:It would be tough to put 300K on that car since you can't go more than 150miles from your house.

What do you mean? You can plug it in anywhere can't you? You drive 150 miles, find a burger joint that has a plug outside, sneak up and plug in your ride, then chill and enjoy your burger while your car charges. :-D

I thought the article said the car is capable of a 45 minute quick charge. :-?
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Madison » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:54 pm

Metroid wrote:
markj11 wrote:It would be tough to put 300K on that car since you can't go more than 150miles from your house.

What do you mean? You can plug it in anywhere can't you? You drive 150 miles, find a burger joint that has a plug outside, sneak up and plug in your ride, then chill and enjoy your burger while your car charges. :-D

I thought the article said the car is capable of a 45 minute quick charge. :-?


Charging for 45 minutes to drive 2 hours (or even 2 1/2 hours) seems odd to me. :-?
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby thedude » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:39 pm

The price isn't that bad, for what it appears to offer though it is certainly above what the average consumer can afford. But i would be more put off by the range. For instance if i had to drive anywhere on business or a vacation i would not want to have to rent a car. Plus how many parking lots have places you can charge up?
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Metroid » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:24 pm

markj11 wrote:Seems like they would have been better off starting with a lower end production car.

Yeah this really would have been the way to go, build a less frills, less expensive production model first then follow up with the more stylish high end sports/luxury/utility models. Put a product out there that is reasonably affordable so you can get more on the road. :-?
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Re: Tesla Model S

Postby Matthias » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:49 pm

Metroid wrote:
markj11 wrote:Seems like they would have been better off starting with a lower end production car.

Yeah this really would have been the way to go, build a less frills, less expensive production model first then follow up with the more stylish high end sports/luxury/utility models. Put a product out there that is reasonably affordable so you can get more on the road. :-?

I don't think they had it priced higher because of frills, but rather it's the technology price.

Also from the NYTimes piece:
Smaller electric cars would be less expensive, and Mr. Musk said that Tesla eventually plans to build one for less than $30,000. Prices will presumably go down as the technology improves.

“A $50,000 sporty E.V. is actually quite impressive given the decades of underinvestment in battery research,” said Daniel Kammen, a professor of energy at the University of California, Berkeley. “There will be other companies populating the electric vehicle space now, so hopefully prices will fall rapidly.”
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