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OBP vs. AVG

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OBP vs. AVG

Postby sanfranfan22 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:15 am

Is there really a point to having AVG as a scoring category if you OBP? Our league last year had both and we didn't like how they were pretty much the same. If you won AVG then you most likely won OBP too. This year I was thinking about just having OBP. What do you think?

Our league: Yahoo 12 team, H2H, Daily

Scoring:
R, RBI, HR, Steals, OBP
Wins, ERA, WHIP, K/9, Saves

Any suggestions? Should we add anything else?
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Peeig » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:22 am

I run a head to head league that has OBP and AVG and I do not find that the same team wins AVG and OBP every week..............AVG is incredibly streaky where as players walk rates generally arent. Also, there are guys like Alexei Ramirez .290 avg, .310 obp and Adam Dunn .240 avg, .380 obp..........so it isn't like avg and obp following exactly. I do understand your point though and there is nothing wrong with choosing obp over avg.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Amazinz » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:45 pm

I agree that they are redundant. Depending on your league mates, it can be a little difficult to win them over. Fantasy Baseball seems strange without BA, like a hot dog without mustard.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:19 pm

We use AVG & OBP and I like it. It is almost like double-counting OBP, which is good from a true player value sense, without being completely duplicative. You have some guys that are high AVG, mediocre OBP and other guys that are bad or mediocre AVG but OBP rock stars. The true All Stars are generally high in both.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Chaos151p » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:14 pm

Nice question. Our leagues are very similar, I've added Hits (offense) & Losses (pitching) to make it 6x6.

Last year I went with both Avg & Obp, they are too close though - forget all the who has better hit streaks or who walks more & who gets intentionally walked, bottom line is:

average is hits divided by at bats
on base pct is hits/walks divided by at bats

That's it - I wanted to incorporate Walks into the scoring & this is the easiest balanced way to do it. True guys like Dunn who hit like .220 with an Obp of .380+ are golden, but "a walk's as good as a hit"
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby SumG » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:28 pm

I think there is enough difference between the two categories to justify them both being in there if you so choose. For example, Dunn last year had a sub-.240 avg but an OBP over .370. meanwhile a guy like Robinson Cano has an avg hovering around .280 and an OBP around .300. It does change the value of a number of players in the league.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Matthias » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:59 am

Chaos151p wrote:Last year I went with both Avg & Obp, they are too close though - forget all the who has better hit streaks or who walks more & who gets intentionally walked, bottom line is:

average is hits divided by at bats
on base pct is hits/walks divided by at bats

Bottom line is that power/slugging is traditionally overvalued in fantasy leagues and OBP is undervalued. Having AVG & OBP corrects that to some degree.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby walkoffblast » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:28 pm

Matthias wrote:We use AVG & OBP and I like it. It is almost like double-counting OBP, which is good from a true player value sense, without being completely duplicative. You have some guys that are high AVG, mediocre OBP and other guys that are bad or mediocre AVG but OBP rock stars. The true All Stars are generally high in both.


I am not sure how it is almost like double counting OBP because it is exactly like double counting AVG which is not particularly great from a true player value sense. I like using both but mostly because people are still reluctant to let go of BA. If you want a truer reflection dump AVG and use OBP. I am a big fan of incoporating OBP and SLG while diminishing the tyranny of BA.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Matthias » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:19 am

walkoffblast wrote:
Matthias wrote:We use AVG & OBP and I like it. It is almost like double-counting OBP, which is good from a true player value sense, without being completely duplicative. You have some guys that are high AVG, mediocre OBP and other guys that are bad or mediocre AVG but OBP rock stars. The true All Stars are generally high in both.

I am not sure how it is almost like double counting OBP because it is exactly like double counting AVG which is not particularly great from a true player value sense. I like using both but mostly because people are still reluctant to let go of BA. If you want a truer reflection dump AVG and use OBP. I am a big fan of incoporating OBP and SLG while diminishing the tyranny of BA.

AVG and OBP are correlated (for obvious reasons). SLG is overrated. Relatively speaking, OBP is 1.7x more valuable than SLG. So if you want to do away with AVG and double-count OBP, that's defensible. But AVG and OBP is probably better than OBP and SLG.
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Re: OBP vs. AVG

Postby Trojan Pony » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:50 pm

To me, in H2H, the same team more often than not wins AVG and OBP, just like the same team more often than not wins ERA and WHIP. Good pitching is good pitching and good hitting is good hitting... I see no problem with using both.
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