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Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Tavish » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:51 pm

grover999 wrote:I'm not a baseball guy: What does GTWMA mean? Though I have limited baseball knowledge, Ripken was not a better player than Kirby.

GTWMA = GoToWarMissAgnes (the guy you quoted in your post)

If you cut the end of Ripken's career off to the point he played roughly the same number of games as Puckett (1981-1992 and 1800 games for Ripken vs 1984 - 1995 and 1783 games for Puckett) here is the comparison:

Ripken has more HRs, more BB, less K's
Pucket has a better BA, more SB
The two are roughly equal in RBI, R, OPS+

Puckett was the better hitter of the two by a small margin. Then defensively Ripken (who was an outstanding SS) absolutely destroyed Puckett (who was a decent CF).

Ripken 143 Fielding Runs Above Average
Puckett 13 FRAA

And then Ripken went on to play 1200 more games.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:55 pm

And Ripken played SS.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby grover999 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:57 pm

Yoda wrote:
grover999 wrote:
Tavish wrote:Not sure what GTWMA said about Puckett, but I will say without hesitation that Ripken was not only a better player than Puckett, he was a much better player than Puckett. And that is disregarding the longevity factor.


I'm not a baseball guy: What does GTWMA mean? Though I have limited baseball knowledge, Ripken was not a better player than Kirby.


Ripken's peak years were much better than Puckett's. IMO, Puckett is not a HOFer.


I just looked up their stats, Cal Ripken Jr hit more homeruns and had 2 MVP's. Kirby's stats are actually unreal. He averaged over 200 hits, hit a ton of doubles, and won the Gold Glove almost every year from 86 to 93. Like I said, Cal is a very good player. However if he didn't play in 2600+ games in a row, you wouldn't be talking about him. Kirby made the hall, and he really only played 10 years. If any player was deserving Kirby was they guy. I know he had some shady things with his wife( I'm not happy about that), but as a player not to many players are more deserving than Kirby.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby grover999 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:00 pm

Tavish wrote:
grover999 wrote:I'm not a baseball guy: What does GTWMA mean? Though I have limited baseball knowledge, Ripken was not a better player than Kirby.

GTWMA = GoToWarMissAgnes (the guy you quoted in your post)

If you cut the end of Ripken's career off to the point he played roughly the same number of games as Puckett (1981-1992 and 1800 games for Ripken vs 1984 - 1995 and 1783 games for Puckett) here is the comparison:

Ripken has more HRs, more BB, less K's
Pucket has a better BA, more SB
The two are roughly equal in RBI, R, OPS+

Puckett was the better hitter of the two by a small margin. Then defensively Ripken (who was an outstanding SS) absolutely destroyed Puckett (who was a decent CF).

Ripken 143 Fielding Runs Above Average
Puckett 13 FRAA

And then Ripken went on to play 1200 more games.


I am a football guy and FRAA doesn't mean much to me( I have to admit I don't even know where you would get that number). Puckett was a outstanding OF. One of the best during his time. Again I don't think you can hold it against him that he played in 1200 games less than Ripken. Kirby only really had the opportunity to play MLB for 10 years.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby IVIisfits138 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:02 pm

grover999 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
grover999 wrote:
I'm not a baseball guy: What does GTWMA mean? Though I have limited baseball knowledge, Ripken was not a better player than Kirby.


Ripken's peak years were much better than Puckett's. IMO, Puckett is not a HOFer.


I just looked up their stats, Cal Ripken Jr hit more homeruns and had 2 MVP's. Kirby's stats are actually unreal. He averaged over 200 hits, hit a ton of doubles, and won the Gold Glove almost every year from 86 to 93. Like I said, Cal is a very good player. However if he didn't play in 2600+ games in a row, you wouldn't be talking about him. Kirby made the hall, and he really only played 10 years. If any player was deserving Kirby was they guy. I know he had some shady things with his wife( I'm not happy about that), but as a player not to many players are more deserving than Kirby.


The exact same thing can be said about Mattingly however. But he isn't even in the HOF, an especially not regarded as one of the most deserving ever to be in.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Tavish » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:06 pm

grover999 wrote:I am a football guy and FRAA doesn't mean much to me( I have to admit I don't even know where you would get that number). Puckett was a outstanding OF. One of the best during his time. Again I don't think you can hold it against him that he played in 1200 games less than Ripken. Kirby only really had the opportunity to play MLB for 10 years.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. The 1200 extra games was just a side note. You are looking at Puckett through rose-colored glasses and choosing only to remember Ripken in terms of the streak. Ripken wasn't always the old, slow, bald guy that ESPN followed around counting down the games to Gehrig's record.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby grover999 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:07 pm

IVIisfits138 wrote:
grover999 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Ripken's peak years were much better than Puckett's. IMO, Puckett is not a HOFer.


I just looked up their stats, Cal Ripken Jr hit more homeruns and had 2 MVP's. Kirby's stats are actually unreal. He averaged over 200 hits, hit a ton of doubles, and won the Gold Glove almost every year from 86 to 93. Like I said, Cal is a very good player. However if he didn't play in 2600+ games in a row, you wouldn't be talking about him. Kirby made the hall, and he really only played 10 years. If any player was deserving Kirby was they guy. I know he had some shady things with his wife( I'm not happy about that), but as a player not to many players are more deserving than Kirby.


The exact same thing can be said about Mattingly however. But he isn't even in the HOF, an especially not regarded as one of the most deserving ever to be in.


I will say that I really didn't say what I meant. I meant that Kirby is more deserving than Cal. And just so you know, Mr. Mattingly is not HOF worthy. He is in the same class as Cal, except he didn't play in 2600 straight games.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby grover999 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:11 pm

Tavish wrote:
grover999 wrote:I am a football guy and FRAA doesn't mean much to me( I have to admit I don't even know where you would get that number). Puckett was a outstanding OF. One of the best during his time. Again I don't think you can hold it against him that he played in 1200 games less than Ripken. Kirby only really had the opportunity to play MLB for 10 years.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. The 1200 extra games was just a side note. You are looking at Puckett through rose-colored glasses and choosing only to remember Ripken in terms of the streak. Ripken wasn't always the old, slow, bald guy that ESPN followed around counting down the games to Gehrig's record.


I understand that, my only problem is when some people say that Kirby shouldn't be in the hall. I just don't think you should hold it against him that he had to quit playing, while a guy like Cal could continue playing. I really don't want to take anything away from Cal, but Kirby was great when he was playing( and his fellow competitors have said that).
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Tavish » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:12 pm

grover999 wrote:I will say that I really didn't say what I meant. I meant that Kirby is more deserving than Cal. And just so you know, Mr. Mattingly is not HOF worthy. He is in the same class as Cal, except he didn't play in 2600 straight games.

How about Will Clark?
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby grover999 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:19 pm

Tavish wrote:
grover999 wrote:I will say that I really didn't say what I meant. I meant that Kirby is more deserving than Cal. And just so you know, Mr. Mattingly is not HOF worthy. He is in the same class as Cal, except he didn't play in 2600 straight games.

How about Will Clark?


Will Clark: 1 Gold Glove( I think) 4 top 7 MVP.
Cal Ripken Jr: 2 Gold Gloves, 3 top 7 MVP( 2 MVPs)
Kirby Puckett: 6 gold gloves, 7 top 7 MVP
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