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Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Fade2White12 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:30 am

mkultra wrote:This statement, IMO, embodies a common failing of fantasy managers. HEALTH IS A SKILL. But because it's not a stat on a spreadsheet, so many people pretend like it doesn't matter.


Exactly. Luck often contributes to whether and when and injury occurs, but skill determines whether he'll play anyway.

Lou Gehrig once had a seizure on the field during a game and came back and played the next day. He also was knocked unconscious by a ball and stayed in the game. At the end of his career he had an x-ray of his hands which showed 17 fractures, both new and old, yet each one he played through - 2130 games. There is no doubt that Ripken was injured throughout his streak as well, and because of his stellar conditioning and training regimens, he was able to play through every last one of them.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:32 am

Health is a skill is a statement a lot like Clutch is a skill for me.

There is nothing most injured players can do about getting hurt, injuries are always going to be a part of sports and the majority of them are completely unavoidable. However some players do not stay in proper shape and in those cases they are to blame for the injuries.

Clutch doesn't really exist to me unless you want to define it as plays just like normal in big situations in which case 75% of baseball players are clutch, but there are players who perform worse in clutch situations and are anti-clutch.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby J35J » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:25 pm

Ender wrote:Health is a skill is a statement a lot like Clutch is a skill for me.

There is nothing most injured players can do about getting hurt, injuries are always going to be a part of sports and the majority of them are completely unavoidable. However some players do not stay in proper shape and in those cases they are to blame for the injuries.

Clutch doesn't really exist to me unless you want to define it as plays just like normal in big situations in which case 75% of baseball players are clutch, but there are players who perform worse in clutch situations and are anti-clutch.


+1
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Yoda » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:29 pm

Ender wrote:Health is a skill is a statement a lot like Clutch is a skill for me.

There is nothing most injured players can do about getting hurt, injuries are always going to be a part of sports and the majority of them are completely unavoidable. However some players do not stay in proper shape and in those cases they are to blame for the injuries.

Clutch doesn't really exist to me unless you want to define it as plays just like normal in big situations in which case 75% of baseball players are clutch, but there are players who perform worse in clutch situations and are anti-clutch.


Some players are definitely able to play through pain and manage their injuries a lot better in order to stay on the field. There are freak injuries like getting hit with a pitch or blowing out a ligament but most injuries are preventable with a good diet, conditioning, stretching and training.

So I guess I disagree with you completely in that saying health is a skill is a statement a lot like clutch is a skill.
Last edited by Yoda on Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby rainman23 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:32 pm

I remember immediately following one of those "he's hurting his team; he's selfish; he should take a day off" tirades he came back to win one of his MVP's. Nobody talked much about it then. I don't remember any of Cal's managers ever wishing the guy would take a day off. I always thought it was the height of arrogance for anyone to presume they knew when it was time for the guy to take a break. He was the most durable player of all time. He, along with Robin Yount, was the template for the modern offensive shortstop. He hit third on championship teams (not talking strictly world championships here) while playing the most crucial (ok, along with catcher) defensive position on the team. He moved between third and shortstop as his team needed him to, and played at a high level at both. He won two MVP's. Whether Alan Trammell belongs in the HoF is certainly arguable, but Ripken is a slam dunk.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:48 pm

Yoda wrote:
Some players are definitely able to play through pain and manage their injuries a lot better in order to stay on the field.


I fully agree with this.

There are freak injuries like getting hit with a pitch or blowing out a ligament but most injuries are preventable with a good diet, conditioning, stretching and training.


This is extremely naive imo. Very few muscle pulls can be prevented by diet and stretching, they are just part of the game and are going to happen to players no matter what. Very few of the traumatic injuries can other than maybe not running into a wall or being a bit more aware of where other players are on the field. Probably the pitching related injuries are the most preventable with better mechanics and pitch selection. To throw a number out of my backside I'd say less than 25% of injuries in baseball are avoidable by 'skill'.

So I guess I disagree with you completely in that saying health is a skill is a statement a lot like clutch is a skill.


Doubt its the last time we disagree :)
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Yoda » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 pm

Ender wrote:
There are freak injuries like getting hit with a pitch or blowing out a ligament but most injuries are preventable with a good diet, conditioning, stretching and training.


This is extremely naive imo. Very few hamstring pulls can be prevented by diet and stretching. None of the traumatic injuries can. Probably the pitching related injuries are the most preventable with better mechanics and pitch selection. To throw a number out of my backside I'd say less than 20% of injuries in baseball are avoidable in any way.


Look at the Yankees a couple of years ago when everyone was pulling their hamstrings and quads because they were not stretching properly. The trainer got fired because so many players were getting hurt and some players like Hughes might have been damaged permanently.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:54 pm

Well sure if you have a trainer specifically doing a bad job then yeah that could cause issues. I'm guessing it is much more likely they happened to have a lot of pulls that year and used the trainer as a scapegoat though. That is how these things generally really work.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Yoda » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:57 pm

Ender wrote:Well sure if you have a trainer specifically doing a bad job then yeah that could cause issues. I'm guessing it is much more likely they happened to have a lot of pulls that year and used the trainer as a scapegoat though. That is how these things generally really work.


No, the trainer was new and he implemented a new training program.

Some players will definitely get hurt regardless but saying that players do not have a lot of control over their future health is definitely incorrect. Genetics is key but most of the elite players train nonstop to keep up in great shape.
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Re: Why is Cal Ripken Jr. considered great?

Postby Fade2White12 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:09 pm

Ender wrote:This is extremely naive imo. Very few muscle pulls can be prevented by diet and stretching, they are just part of the game and are going to happen to players no matter what.


I'm not sure where you are getting this information from, but that is exactly how you can prevent muscle pulls and strains. A muscle strain is the result of muscle over-stretching resulting in a tear. Muscles are able to resist this tearing when the temperature of the muscle is increased (through a proper warmup), the strength of the muscle is increased (through proper training and conditioning), the flexibility of the muscle in increased (proper stretching), and increased muscle energy (through correct dieting - high carbs for example). In general, almost all muscle pulls can be prevented through those means.
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