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schilling retires. HOF?

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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Tavish » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:58 am

AussieDodger wrote:Isn't he 2nd all-time in K/BB or something like that?

I saw that on the world wide leader, and can't remember exactly because I was dazzled by all their other b.s.
Some douche was saying he will vote for him though, so TAKE THAT all you haters, he's got one vote ;-7 ;-7 ;-7

(I think Gammo said he was gonna vote for him too, so there's 2!!!!!!!!)


You "think" Gammons is going to vote for him??? Gammons would vote to rename the Hall of Fame "Cowboy Up Central".
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:01 am

thedude wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Agreed. The fact that he has three rings is largely luck-based. It doesn't say anything about his personal skill level or what he personally accomplished in his career. And generally four seasons are not good enough to make the HOF.


That isn't true at all. If he is not on the 2001 Diamondbacks or the 2004 Red Sox the New York Yankees have 28 rings. He wasn't the only reason his teams won, but he was a major factor.


Winning the World Series is not an individual accomplishment. If Schilling was on the 2001 and 2004 Pittsburgh Pirates, he doesn't have those rings. So how is it to Schilling's great credit that he has three rings? It's to his team's credit. Did he contribute to those championships? Certainly. But you are essentially awarding him bonus points for having good teammates. On the flip side, what do you do with a pitcher who never got the postseason opportunities Schilling got, or was never on a team quite good enough to win it all? Is it his fault that his teammates weren't as good as Schilling's? I just find it to be an arbitrary argument. Anyone can get hot for a few weeks in October. I want to see what kind of impact he made in his 20 seasons.
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Matthias » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:04 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:Curt's five most comparable pitchers on BRef are Kevin Brown, Bob Welch, Orel Hershiser, Freddie Fitzsimmons and John Smoltz. None of them are yet in the Hall of Fame.

I'd say it's a pretty strong bet that Smoltz will be.

Under Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor (100 being likely to the Hall, 130 being a virtual lock) of pitchers not yet eligible for the hall, Clemens scores 331, RJ 322, Maddux 256, Pedro 202, Mariano 200, Glavine 176, Schilling 171, Smoltz 167, Hoffman 157, John Franco 124, Mussina 121, Jose Mesa 113, Billy Wagner 108, Andy Pettite 102, and Kevin Brown 93.

The scores of some of the other names mentioned are: David Cone 103 and Vida Blue 114.

Now, the measure is an attempt to predict who will be inducted into the Hall, not necessarily who deserves to be. But it provides a decent glimpse of why people might say Schilling is a lock because, based on what seems to motivate the voters, he is.
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Matthias » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:07 am

Tavish wrote:You "think" Gammons is going to vote for him??? Gammons would vote to rename the Hall of Fame "Cowboy Up Central".

Next thread: Kevin Millar HoF? :-D
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Padres Fan » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:10 am

He practically carried 2 teams to WS wins hence the MVP (Dbacks, Sox)

help with mine?
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:13 am

Matthias wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Curt's five most comparable pitchers on BRef are Kevin Brown, Bob Welch, Orel Hershiser, Freddie Fitzsimmons and John Smoltz. None of them are yet in the Hall of Fame.

I'd say it's a pretty strong bet that Smoltz will be.

Under Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor (100 being likely to the Hall, 130 being a virtual lock) of pitchers not yet eligible for the hall, Clemens scores 331, RJ 322, Maddux 256, Pedro 202, Mariano 200, Glavine 176, Schilling 171, Smoltz 167, Hoffman 157, John Franco 124, Mussina 121, Jose Mesa 113, Billy Wagner 108, Andy Pettite 102, and Kevin Brown 93.

The scores of some of the other names mentioned are: David Cone 103 and Vida Blue 114.

Now, the measure is an attempt to predict who will be inducted into the Hall, not necessarily who deserves to be. But it provides a decent glimpse of why people might say Schilling is a lock because, based on what seems to motivate the voters, he is.


I concede that my HOF criteria is certainly very different from the people who actually vote.
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Padres Fan » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:18 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Curt's five most comparable pitchers on BRef are Kevin Brown, Bob Welch, Orel Hershiser, Freddie Fitzsimmons and John Smoltz. None of them are yet in the Hall of Fame.

I'd say it's a pretty strong bet that Smoltz will be.

Under Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor (100 being likely to the Hall, 130 being a virtual lock) of pitchers not yet eligible for the hall, Clemens scores 331, RJ 322, Maddux 256, Pedro 202, Mariano 200, Glavine 176, Schilling 171, Smoltz 167, Hoffman 157, John Franco 124, Mussina 121, Jose Mesa 113, Billy Wagner 108, Andy Pettite 102, and Kevin Brown 93.

The scores of some of the other names mentioned are: David Cone 103 and Vida Blue 114.

Now, the measure is an attempt to predict who will be inducted into the Hall, not necessarily who deserves to be. But it provides a decent glimpse of why people might say Schilling is a lock because, based on what seems to motivate the voters, he is.


I concede that my HOF criteria is certainly very different from the people who actually vote.



Schilling was better than Brown and Hershiser, Smoltz will be int he HOF, you might be jaded due to the fact you area Yankees fan
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:23 am

Padres Fan wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Matthias wrote:I'd say it's a pretty strong bet that Smoltz will be.

Under Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor (100 being likely to the Hall, 130 being a virtual lock) of pitchers not yet eligible for the hall, Clemens scores 331, RJ 322, Maddux 256, Pedro 202, Mariano 200, Glavine 176, Schilling 171, Smoltz 167, Hoffman 157, John Franco 124, Mussina 121, Jose Mesa 113, Billy Wagner 108, Andy Pettite 102, and Kevin Brown 93.

The scores of some of the other names mentioned are: David Cone 103 and Vida Blue 114.

Now, the measure is an attempt to predict who will be inducted into the Hall, not necessarily who deserves to be. But it provides a decent glimpse of why people might say Schilling is a lock because, based on what seems to motivate the voters, he is.


I concede that my HOF criteria is certainly very different from the people who actually vote.



Schilling was better than Brown and Hershiser, Smoltz will be int he HOF, you might be jaded due to the fact you area Yankees fan


I'm not making these numbers/comparisons up. Me being a Yankee fan has nothing to do with it. Schilling is in the same class as Brown, Hershiser, Smoltz, etc. And I'm not arguing whether or not Schilling/Smoltz WILL get into. I know that they will. I'm arguing whether or not they should. There is a difference.
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:36 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:Anyone can get hot for a few weeks in October. I want to see what kind of impact he made in his 20 seasons.

I don't know what you're talking about.

BTW, David Eckstein wants your vote for his HoF induction. :-D
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Re: schilling retires. HOF?

Postby Yoda » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:43 am

Tavish wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:Isn't he 2nd all-time in K/BB or something like that?

I saw that on the world wide leader, and can't remember exactly because I was dazzled by all their other b.s.
Some douche was saying he will vote for him though, so TAKE THAT all you haters, he's got one vote ;-7 ;-7 ;-7

(I think Gammo said he was gonna vote for him too, so there's 2!!!!!!!!)


You "think" Gammons is going to vote for him??? Gammons would vote to rename the Hall of Fame "Cowboy Up Central".


Or vote to have only players who were awesome in the playoffs in the HOF.
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