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Why this league doesn't work?

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Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Dorasaga » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:53 am

I'm asking this question as a commissioner of a 2nd year league on Yahoo Baseball PLUS. We had a great time last year, but unfortunately, almost none of the managers in 2008 can come back this year. So I've been recruiting managers.

What surprised me is that, though I designed the league system fairly real and interesting (I believe), there has been no interest of joining so far. I don't know what's wrong. Maybe because I only posted on Yahoo's forum? or maybe I spread the word too late, and good baseball fans had their hands full with all other leagues already?

I just don't know.

For your evaluation, below is my invitation letter that I also posted on Yahoo's fantasy forum. If anyone's interested to join, you have my gratitude!

***

Somehow Completely Different: An Invitation to Dorasaga's Fantasy PLUS

>>If you know someone who likes to try this, please pass on the message below<<



New Season, more green. It has nothing to do with our new economy policy here. I'm talking about the baseball season really kicking in.

I recently purchased a Yahoo Fantasy Baseball PLUS league, and I'm looking forward to more friends joining me.



Here's what this is, the Dorasaga League

- Two divisions: "Honor" and "Dignity"; we have a postseason for the best teams

- A prize for the winner

- Efficiency: Trade will go through one day later

- A smaller and better manageable team roster-- I know most of us are working people: 17 total, one for each position player, 3 starting pitchers and 4 relief, 2 bench

- Live Draft and Keeper (You can use up to 2 players from your last year's final fantasy roster if you participated. I shall continue the league next year, and you will be able to move players for next year as well.)

- Head to Head play--it's more exciting to have a rivalry--compete against an opponent every week. Wins or losses are calculated after how your team performed and generated Fantasy Points*


- You can find all at Yahoo Help:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/baseba ... lp-55.html

- *Fantasy Point:

I studied how baseball researchers evaluate players and devised a point system for Dorasaga League ("Doli" in short). Since a fantasy team will comprise of players from more than one real MLB team, I adapted events that reflect more of individual contribution, instead of stats that contain their teammates' help.

I'm confident with the general accuracy and service that Yahoo Fantasy Baseball PLUS provides, and the accuracy of their point calculation.

Depending on the stat category, Doli attributes a range of higher point and lower point value to each event category, some positive and some negative. For example, a one-base hit is worth "1" point, while a home run is "4.8" points. If you still have questions about the point system after you joined Doli, please ask.


- Other Doli features...

- In order to accommodate World Baseball Classic, the 2009 regular season will start later, Apr 6. Doli will draft on Saturday, March 28, 9:00pm CST. We may change the draft time if the majority agrees

- Four moves per week, 36 per season; trade is encouraged

***

Below is the access to Doli.

Link:
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com ... gue_select

ID: 1677
password: welovebaseball

***

Before you join, you should be ready to apply these general rules:

1. You agree to abide by good sportsmanship while playing Dorasaga League.

2. You agree to not use any derogative or ad-hominem language in Dorasaga League.

3. You will take the commissioner's decision as final and will respect the decision. (You may file unrighteous actions to the commissioner or Yahoo, if you need to.)

4. You agree to pay the PLUS league fee of six US Dollars by either wire-transfer or money-order. (Residence in Japan and Taiwan can pay in other formats.)

5. You will promptly respond to league actions and to requests from other participating managers.


***

I hope to see you soon... Let's play some hardball!

Yours,
D
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Kimbos Beard » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:16 pm

The "Doli" system.....that is good stuff.

I am not joining your league. I know you are just trolling for managers, but I would never join a public league with a commissioner I didn't know who created his own scoring system and crazy points category. Now you may very well have a good system and a good league, but that is how your invitation comes off.

Good luck man, hope you dont get burned for the $124.99
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby markj11 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:23 pm

Kimbos Beard wrote:The "Doli" system.....that is good stuff.

I am not joining your league. I know you are just trolling for managers, but I would never join a public league with a commissioner I didn't know who created his own scoring system and crazy points category. Now you may very well have a good system and a good league, but that is how your invitation comes off.

Good luck man, hope you dont get burned for the $124.99


On top of that:

3. You will take the commissioner's decision as final and will respect the decision. (You may file unrighteous actions to the commissioner or Yahoo, if you need to.)
I ain't askin' nobody for nothin, If I can't get it on my own. - Charlie Daniels
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Dorasaga » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:34 pm

Kimbos Beard wrote: I know you are just trolling for managers, but I would never join a public league with a commissioner I didn't know who created his own scoring system and crazy points category. Now you may very well have a good system and a good league, but that is how your invitation comes off.


Kimbos,

You sounded like you have stronger opinions against my post. "Crazy"? I don't know about that. Slugging percentage is counted in a similar way (1 for single, 2 for double, and so forth). I simply adapted SABR methods on my league.

This is not a public league. It's a private league. I'll love to see more managers. But that's another issue. I can live without it.

I'm really interested at how to make a league better and to make more people enjoy it. Everything this league has, you just saw it. If you see something not right, please let me know in more detail.
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Dorasaga » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:38 pm

markj11 wrote:On top of that:

3. You will take the commissioner's decision as final and will respect the decision. (You may file unrighteous actions to the commissioner or Yahoo, if you need to.)


mark,

Do you mean that reminding managers you are in a private league, and you should respect others, will discourage people to join?
...
On a second thought, maybe readers will take it in a different way, is it?
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby RDD15 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:01 pm

Two points.

#1, your scoring system, being non-traditional will scare people away. People tend to stick with what they already know. Not saying that your system is bad, but it is different.

#2, and this is most important. Maybe it is just me that has a fundamental and strong opposition to pay leagues that are commished by someone that I don't already know, but I have a hard time sending a check to a stranger. I only skimmed your post, and I did not see for sure whether there is a fee for the league, but since it cost you a few bucks to start the league, I am guessing there is some sort of fee.
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Matthias » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:37 pm

Speaking for myself, this would be my reaction to your post.

1) I don't play points leagues.

2) You go on and on about your custom stats, but don't actually mention them. All I know from what you said is that it's something that I don't know.

3) Short bench plus limited moves sounds like bad news.
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Trojan Pony » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:12 am

Yeah, the whole thing is just too long-winded and ambiguous, and uses too many unfamiliar terms, and I've been playing fantasy baseball for 12 years now. I got overwhelmed and bored about halfway through. Cut it down and simplify things... I'm not saying sacrifice your idea, go for it, but try to present it in a way that's less daunting to someone who's never seen anything like it before (which is probably about 100% of your prospective managers).

Maybe just put the most basic details in your sales pitch and then send a more elaborate Constitution or something to people when they join? That's kind of what I do with my league, it's easier for people to digest that way. If they really want all the nuts and bolts they can read the Constitution and ask me any questions. I wouldn't be trying to sell every little aspect of your league in the first communication with a prospective manager... you'll just scare them away, which is what seems to be happening.

Good luck!
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby fleurent21 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:01 pm

For starters telling everyone that may be interested in joining the league that what the Commish says is final is very shady. Odds are (as I did), most people assume that you're talking about trades you have vetoed or rulings that apply to Fantasy Baseball, not on using foul language.
Also, you gave very little indication of your leagues scoring format. You mentioned what categories are used, and then went on to mention how they are all relative to the whole team performance but you'll be basing everything on "events".
But you didn't indicate how this would happen, with the exception of basehits.
Runs, for example, would my player get a 4.8 score for a run scored by hitting a homerun because he produced it himself, and a 1 score for every other time he scored because it was all relative to teammates performance?
If you're going to invent a different (and possibly interesting) scoring system then you need to give more details about that and less on managers not using foul language in your post up about it.
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Re: Why this league doesn't work?

Postby Dorasaga » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:25 am

Thanks for all of your advices! As a second year commish and fantasy player, I must say there's a lot of fantasy "culture" that I'm still learning... And here's some that I need to work with, maybe again and again...

3) Short bench plus limited moves sounds like bad news.

In general, I'm not a fan of using accumulative stats to determine the winner out of a head-to-head competition. There's too many ways to "cheat" it: Add and drop all the pitchers to earn wins or saves, for example. A Manager who has more time, to track more MLB players then add/drop, can easily turn around his chances to win every week. I also believe that a Draft matters. If I drafted well, I should be able to hold on for most of the season. And in order to draft well, I needed to think responsibly the type of roster I want. There's another discussion thread in this forum that talks about this type of "cheating," which is pretty interesting.

These are some of the reasons why I designed the roster smaller and precise (LF, CF, RF, 3 SP, 4 RP), with only 2 benches, just in case a manager suffers any injury.

I also thought Fantasy Baseball is a communal sport. I personally know everyone in last year's Doli, but still, very few trades happened. I had a max 5 moves per week for the first two weeks, and then I changed it to 2 moves per week (of course planned, and managers were noted of this change before the league started), with 50 season add/drop limit. But still, managers would rather add/drop and use up the limit, instead of trade. So I thought, this year I'll encourage managers to trade and talk to each other a bit more, by further limiting max moves...


For starters telling everyone that may be interested in joining the league that what the Commish says is final is very shady.

Wouldn't it be better that a commish takes his stand beforehand: remind everyone to play fair and square? and people know what to expect? I played two leagues last year, and the other league has a commish who's laissez-faire. People would bicker each other about pre-arranged losing team trading its best players to a winning team, and all trades were vetoed by the league since then. The commish did nothing to prevent distrust to happen.

But I guess I already fore-mentioned sportsmanship... might as well downplay this a bit...

but I have a hard time sending a check to a stranger.

Baseball PLUS is a paid service, and in order to play it, one either joins a private league that's paid by the commish (like mine), or spends $20 or something to start a team and join a public league. I saw leagues that request ridiculous high amount of league fee.

My initial thought: If people really want to play something new, they would check out the league--join and read its details, and if not like it, leave it and find another one. But if a manager likes it, he'll stay regardless of the price (as long as it's reasonable).

I thought $6 would be the cutting line between a manager who's not going to care (but just want to join whatever leauge) and a manager who's willing to play deep into the season. I'm losing money anyway, even if there's 15 more managers who joined and paid (I set the max to 16). And the fee should be voluntary. If the manager likes this league, then he'll donate $6--flat fee.

But I guess that won't happen, in any event...

I got overwhelmed and bored about halfway through. Cut it down and simplify things

fleurent21 wrote:If you're going to invent a different (and possibly interesting) scoring system then you need to give more details about that and less on managers not using foul language in your post up about it.


This is probably late, but I revised the invitation and showed the stat categories (see below)... Did I cover everything that "newcomers" need to know?...

I also need to ask where should I post this--on this forum or in some other forum where I can find managers?

Here's what this is, the Dorasaga League:

- Two divisions; with postseason

- A prize for the winner

- Trade will go through one day later, League Veto applies

- Live Draft and Keeper (- Draft on Saturday, April 4, 9:00pm CST: two days before Opening Day. We may change the draft time if the majority agrees)

- Head to Head play--after how your team performed and generated Fantasy Points*

- *Fantasy Point:

Batting:
stat/point
1B 1
2B 1.8
3B 3.0
HR 4.8
SB 0.5
CS -1.1
BB 0.8
IBB 0.2
HBP 0.3
K -0.5
PA -0.1

Pitching:
IP 0.15
HR -1.1
BB -1
HBP -0.8
K 1.3
WP -0.3
GIDP 0.67
NSV 0.25

- You can find other PLUS features at Yahoo Help:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/baseballplus/signup/baseballp-55.html

***

Below is the access to this league:

Link:
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/b2/register/joinprivateleague_league_select

ID: 1677
password: welovebaseball

***

Before you join, here's some rules of thumb:

1. Abide by good sportsmanship while playing Dorasaga League.
2. Promptly respond to league actions and to requests from other participating managers.

***

I welcome any suggestion to make the league better!

Your commissioner,
Dorasaga
Last edited by Dorasaga on Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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