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Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

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Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby JTWood » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:46 am

The Russians are all upset about our deployment of anti-missile systems in eastern Europe, so...

Bloomberg.com wrote:March 14 (Bloomberg) -- Russia could base strategic bombers at Cuban and Venezuelan airfields, the head of the Russian strategic air force was quoted as saying by the Interfax news service.

“With Cuba, this is possible,” the Moscow-based agency quoted Major General Anatoly Zhikharev as saying. “There are four or five airfields with 4,000-meter (13,000-feet) runways which suit us completely.”

Russia has also received an offer to temporarily station bombers in Venezuela from President Hugo Chavez, which Zhikharev called “possible,” according to state television station Vesti-24.

“If the heads of the two countries show the will, the political will, then we are prepared to fly there,” Zhikharev said, according to Interfax.
...
The deployment of Soviet missiles in Cuba brought the U.S. and the Soviet Union to the brink of nuclear conflict in 1962. Under the deal that ended the crisis, Moscow withdrew the missiles and pledged not to station offensive weapons on the island, about 145 kilometers (90 miles) south of Florida.

There's a pretty hefty difference between the use of defensive systems and offensive systems. This sort of response is not healthy.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby Matthias » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:05 am

But it's pretty predictable; maybe Star Wars wasn't a good program to pour money into.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby thedude » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:24 am

Matthias wrote:But it's pretty predictable; maybe Star Wars wasn't a good program to pour money into.


It was just a major factor in causing the down of communism worldwide.

This is just Russia, Cuba, and Hugo Chavez testing Obama to see if he is another Carter.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:26 am

Sounds like Russia blustering trying to get a better position to bargain from.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby Matthias » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:35 am

thedude wrote:
Matthias wrote:But it's pretty predictable; maybe Star Wars wasn't a good program to pour money into.

It was just a major factor in causing the down of communism worldwide.

A program that is still decades from being operational more than 2 decades after it launched was a major factor of causing the downfall of communism worldwide? I'm sorry, I'm not buying that one.

It might be a fair argument that the ICBM race made Russia go bankrupt; or that collectivism just can't work. But all Star Wars has done is to cost the United States huge outlays of money.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby AquaMan2342 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:38 am

thedude wrote:
This is just Russia, Cuba, and Hugo Chavez testing Obama to see if he is another Carter.


Yup.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby JTWood » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:31 am

What does star wars have to do with anti-missile defenses deployed in eastern Europe?
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby Matthias » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:56 am

JTWood wrote:What does star wars have to do with anti-missile defenses deployed in eastern Europe?

Star Wars = Anti-missile defense systems.

If Bush had let the program die instead of trying to breathe new life into it, and nudge it along via treaties to set launch sites in Eastern Europe, Russia wouldn't feel rattled (or more likely, just irritated) enough to talk about putting missiles into Cuba or Venezuela.
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby AussieDodger » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:01 pm

Matthias wrote:
JTWood wrote:What does star wars have to do with anti-missile defenses deployed in eastern Europe?

Star Wars = Anti-missile defense systems.

If Bush had let the program die instead of trying to breathe new life into it, and nudge it along via treaties to set launch sites in Eastern Europe, Russia wouldn't feel rattled (or more likely, just irritated) enough to talk about putting missiles into Cuba or Venezuela.


As usual Bush FTL.

Sometimes I have the feeling he thought he was Richard the lionheart or something :-S :-S
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Re: Russia Heading Back to Cuba? Venezuala, Too?

Postby Matthias » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:04 pm

JTWood wrote:There's a pretty hefty difference between the use of defensive systems and offensive systems. This sort of response is not healthy.

Also, I would dispute this point.

Assuming that Star Wars/SDI was fully operational, fully perfected, and fully capable of handling every Russian ICBM out there (which is probably half a century or more away even if it was pursued), it would be effectively an offensive system.

One of the biggest reasons that the world hasn't yet seen a deployment of nuclear arms since WWII has been the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction (which is the whole reason that a 3rd-world dictator acquiring nukes is such a problem, but that's for another day). The United States knew that if it was to launch nuclear weapons against the USSR, it could fully expect a full nuclear retaliation. And the USSR (and China, and France, and England) knew the same. Because of that, they have not been used. If one side was able to completely neutralize the other side's possibilities of retaliation, that would be an offensive maneuver. It could threaten a nuclear strike without any retaliation.

So I don't see, in this case, the offensive/defensive difference to be meaningful.
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