"Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

"Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

"Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:27 pm

This is a strange issue, but my wife and I were discussing this the other day and I want to get some more opinions. Are we actually perpetuating a racial divide in this country by pushing the celebration of things like Black History Month and MLK?

This is how it came up... My wife's brother is married to a black woman and they have three kids. My daughter is almost 6 and has been around them a bunch, right? Never thought anything about them being different in any way. Until... She goes to kindergarten and learns in school about MLK and how before him everyone in her class could have gone to her school except for the little black kid. So now the schools, run by a government that appears to want to promote equity, has taught her that black people are different.

It just seems weird. I know we shouldn't forget the things that people like MLK did in the civil rights movement and such. But at the same time it seems that if we were to not push it on them, kids would grow up and for the most part not even think anything of skin color at all. Or am I just totally crazy? :-b
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Yoda » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:30 pm

Your wife is married to a black woman?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby knapplc » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:33 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:My wife is married to a black woman and they have three kids.

I applaud the open-mindedness and diversity in your family. :-b That's a good typo.


Regarding your question... it's an interesting point, and the answer lies somewhere in the gray area between celebration and perpetuation. There's an argument for ignoring ALL differences and looking at everyone/everything as the same, and there's an argument for acknowledging our differences and celebrating them. I think whichever route you choose, as long as the goal of your perspective is constructive you can't go wrong. But both have potential pitfalls and could be exploited for nefarious purposes.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7870
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:34 pm

Yoda wrote:Your wife is married to a black woman?


Ha! That is a great typo. !+) Wife's brother. :-D
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:36 pm

knapplc wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:My wife is married to a black woman and they have three kids.

I applaud the open-mindedness and diversity in your family. :-b That's a good typo.


Regarding your question... it's an interesting point, and the answer lies somewhere in the gray area between celebration and perpetuation. There's an argument for ignoring ALL differences and looking at everyone/everything as the same, and there's an argument for acknowledging our differences and celebrating them. I think whichever route you choose, as long as the goal of your perspective is constructive you can't go wrong. But both have potential pitfalls and could be exploited for nefarious purposes.


It just seems that it's almost impossible the have real, true equality if you spend a bunch of time beating it into kids' heads that people are different. They don't know until you tell them.
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby WaCougMBS » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:00 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:It just seems that it's almost impossible the have real, true equality if you spend a bunch of time beating it into kids' heads that people are different. They don't know until you tell them.


This is how I tend to think about it too. This is a pretty good example of this from my own experience - One of my friends has a daughter (who's now 9), and in kindergarten, an African American family moved in down the street from them. He and his wife met the family and really liked them, learning in the process of meeting them that they had a daughter and son the exact same ages as their 2 kids. As the moms were being moms and trying to arrange "play dates", they eventually set up a time for their kids to meet each other and play at one of the houses. Unbeknown to the parents, the girls had met each other in the first day of school and had become pretty good friends in the weeks leading up to the play date.

Their daughter had be talking about this cool girl she had met and how much she wanted to play with the girl outside of school. The mom said fine, but let her know that they were going to be having a play date with the nice black family that moved into the neighborhood. The daughter thought nothing of it, the play date came around, and much to her surprise, the play date was scheduled with the same girl she had been making friends with. When she told her mom that was the same girl, her mom said something along the lines of "why didn't you tell me that she was a black girl? I would have known we were talking about the same kid the whole time..." and the daughter responded by saying that she had not even noticed and had no idea what her mom was talking about when she called them "black" or "African American"...

In a nutshell, I believe that we obviously notice some of the differences innately, and moreso when we get older, but the process is certainly exacerbated by outside factors if you ask me. Now, I'm just a middle-class white kid from the suburbs, so take this all FWIW ;-)
Image
2012 H2HWS West A champion
WaCougMBS
Radio Pimp
Radio Pimp

User avatar
Radio PimpEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterCafecasterFootball ModPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 7201
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 29 May 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Guardedly optimistic

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:18 pm

In a perfect world, people wouldn't care about the differences, so the differences wouldn't need to be discussed. But this isn't a perfect world. I don't have a problem with schools/parents/etc. teaching children about the differences between various races/cultures (assuming that they are teaching positively) because if they don't, then those who want to perpetuate negative stereotypes and widen the gap will almost certainly fill that void.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby CadensDad » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:38 pm

I live and have lived my entire life in the south (Actually Alabama to be exact), so I understand both sides of this issue. One thing I have learned about black people and this could honestly be their downfall as well, they are VERY prideful, the hold MLK and Rosa Parks and now Obama up very high and are not afraid to express themselves on how they feel about how great of people they are. Now even I understand what MLK and Rosa Parks did for blacks, but there was a LOT of others who where in on it as well who did almost as much but just don't get the credit, MLK wasn't the first black man to lead a revolution and Rosa wasn't the first black woman to refuse to give up her seat...... It just so happened that when those two instances first happened the press got in behind them and it grew.


I see the differences pushed from the goverment as well as both races. Not all blacks push this but I do know a lot of people went and bought Obama merchandise and wore it and gave it to their kids to wear to school, and actually told their kids that they would vote for him because it would mean he would be the first black president. I know my freinds oldest son is 9 and the teacher (Who was white) spent the entire day before and day of the ingauration explaining how important it was for blacks to have a black president, what it meant to them and so forth. But my friends kid missunderstood all this as that "white people are mean to blacks who have never had anything." The message was very blurry and the kid didn't understand.


Now growing up me and my brother used to have our 2 best friends over everyday in the summer and every weekend in the school year, one was a black boy and one was white. We never treated the black boy any different than us, if it was eating at the dinner table he got a cup and plate just like the rest of us. Mom's rule always has been, "First come first serve." he learned the rule quickly and was always in line with the rest. Or if he was over and dad decided to work in the yard, he went with us to cut grass or whatever. We never had any problems arise with us being friends, and the few times we went to his house (We didn't go much b/c his mom, sister, him and 2 small nieces shared a single wide and we where rowdy teenage boys.) we where always treated properly and never felt out of place.

I understand why black people push the black history month, the cival rights movement, the importance of the obama being president and other issues. They don't wan't their people forgetting where they came from and how far they came. And obviously the goverment must teach this issue because it's part of history. And like when the Iraq war started love it or hate it, It gives the teacher a chance to teach kids history while it is being made, step by step. I mean wouldn't you have understood WW2 better if you could see the war taking place through t.v. and knowing things going on?.

Now I have no problem with Cival Rights, Rosa Parks, the importance of Obama all being presented in the classroom as long as they are presented in the manner of history. I fully understand what it means to blacks. Because honestly as of today in this country we are different. Does not mean we are better, does not mean we are worse, we are just different. Why are we this way? I think 95% of it stems from the cival rights era still. Because there are so many on both sides still around they still remember the way things use to be and don't know how to accept the way things are now.

People looked at me funny the other night when I walked into a all black club. There was 1 other white person there who was well known within the club. Did I feel out of place? No not really, I felt ackward because of the stares but not out of place. I'm sure blacks feel the same way when they walk into a place and are the only black person. But because of what we know right now that there is a difference we all notice the other. If I had been black and walked into the club I doubt 80% of the people would have seen me.

I just think our country has another 15-20 years to go before we can all see ourselves as 1. Because thats who it is up to. Not TV, not the goverment, not schools, but up to us to start seeing each other as one. And I honestly think it will only come once people from that era are dead and gone on both sides. Once we lose that memory that is so strong then and only then can our wounds heal.
Image

“Never argue with a idiot, because first they will bring you down to their level. Then beat you with experience.”
CadensDad
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5977
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Yoda » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:42 pm

People 'are' different. Recognizing and being aware of everyone's differences is key. We need to teach kids that it is ok to be different whether it be gender, IQ, height, weight, color, sexual orientation or whatever.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: "Celebrating" differences and perpetuating a racial divide

Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:13 pm

BP's general point of non-recognition of differences I agree with. Singling out MLK Day and Black History Month as examples of these divisors, is poor selection. You may as well say that we should stop celebrating St. Patrick's Day since everyone isn't Irish, Christmas since everyone isn't Christian, or President's Day because not everybody is a white male.

The fact of the matter is that we will stop having a racial problem once there is true equality. Right now, prisoners are disproportionately black; welfare recipients are disproportionately black; and Obama is the first non-White President we've ever had. Our society is not at a place where if we just dropped the racial discussion, the problem would dissolve. And until that point, the existence of positive role models for the black community is not a bad thing.
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
Matthias
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4860
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: susanneiv18 and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Aug. 2
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

NY Yankees at Boston
(4:05 pm)
Kansas City at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Seattle at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Texas at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Philadelphia at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Colorado at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
LA Angels at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
San Francisco at NY Mets
(7:10 pm)
Cincinnati at Miami
(7:10 pm)
Toronto at Houston
(7:10 pm)
Minnesota at Chi White Sox
(7:10 pm)
Milwaukee at St. Louis
(7:15 pm)
Pittsburgh at Arizona
(8:10 pm)
Atlanta at San Diego
(8:40 pm)
Chi Cubs at LA Dodgers
(9:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact