auclairkeithbc wrote:This is so close, we should call it for #18 and #19. I know at the 80 vote mark Lee was up by 3 votes. Now Greinke is up by 1 vote. It certainly seems close enough to skip to SP #20, as we've done for the other close votes.
Lester isn't that far behind to make the second in the poll the automatic #19, IMO.
auclairkeithbc wrote:This is so close, we should call it for #18 and #19. I know at the 80 vote mark Lee was up by 3 votes. Now Greinke is up by 1 vote. It certainly seems close enough to skip to SP #20, as we've done for the other close votes.
Lester isn't that far behind to make the second in the poll the automatic #19, IMO.
If Lee gets in ahead of Greinke OR Lester, there is a problem.
auclairkeithbc wrote:This is so close, we should call it for #18 and #19. I know at the 80 vote mark Lee was up by 3 votes. Now Greinke is up by 1 vote. It certainly seems close enough to skip to SP #20, as we've done for the other close votes.
Lester isn't that far behind to make the second in the poll the automatic #19, IMO.
yeah we'd need to do another poll for #19. I'm sure alot of the Greinke voters would vote for Lester (i.e me).
Book it for Greinke and move on to Lee? I'm guessing we'll wait, cause it's close, but I doubt we will have too many more rankers for this one and it's been a while since we had a new one. We going to 25 on SPs?
We should also start a top-25-ish RP pretty soon IMO
I wonder if there are any projection services that have either Greinke or Lester ahead of Cliff Lee. I know there are a few here that see some sort of way that one of them will be better than Lee without a total Lee collapse, but it's kind of crazy to expect a total and utter collapse like so many here think will happen, directly conflicting with just about every so called expert. Lee needs to be on this list before those two that will not K many more guys, will not have better ERAs or WHIPs and will certainly have less Ws.
RotoCowboy wrote:I wonder if there are any projection services that have either Greinke or Lester ahead of Cliff Lee. I know there are a few here that see some sort of way that one of them will be better than Lee without a total Lee collapse, but it's kind of crazy to expect a total and utter collapse like so many here think will happen, directly conflicting with just about every so called expert. Lee needs to be on this list before those two that will not K many more guys, will not have better ERAs or WHIPs and will certainly have less Ws.
I don't see him totally collapsing. He was a good pitcher a few years back so he does have a history of success. However, I don't think that you can expect him to repeat 08.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
But putting him at 18 isn't expecting a repeat. If people were thinking repeat, he'd be in the discussion for #1. No one is thinking that. Does he have a better chance of getting those numbers than Greinke or Lester...of course, but none of them have a high likelihood of matching Lee's 2008 numbers. It isn't very deep thinking to assume 2008 was a total fluke, and then look up a solid year from his past and assume that is now what to expect (conveniently minus the wins).
It seems like a decent amount of people here are ignoring last year a little too much. And it's not like Greinke and Lester are locks to be under 4.00 - I've seen quite a few projections around or over 4.00 for each of them. I could understand Gallardo or someone with real upside like that. I just don't understand going after fairly risky minimal upside guys.
RotoCowboy wrote:But putting him at 18 isn't expecting a repeat. If people were thinking repeat, he'd be in the discussion for #1. No one is thinking that. Does he have a better chance of getting those numbers than Greinke or Lester...of course, but none of them have a high likelihood of matching Lee's 2008 numbers. It isn't very deep thinking to assume 2008 was a total fluke, and then look up a solid year from his past and assume that is now what to expect (conveniently minus the wins).
It seems like a decent amount of people here are ignoring last year a little too much. And it's not like Greinke and Lester are locks to be under 4.00 - I've seen quite a few projections around or over 4.00 for each of them. I could understand Gallardo or someone with real upside like that. I just don't understand going after fairly risky minimal upside guys.
FWIW, Greinke's upside is just as high if not higher than Gallardo's. You can also argue that Lester's upside is very high as well.
I understand what you are saying though. Lee does seem like he is getting lumped into the Esteban Loaiza category which is completely unfair.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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