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2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby mikerobbjk » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:37 pm

I don't know...Isringhausen was waming up in the bullpen. I think it could still be up in the air. Howell deserves it, but I don't know if he ends up with the job.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby rich101682 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:37 pm

Crippler wrote:
Crippler wrote:Everyone who took a ride on the JP Howell train...congrats. You own the TB closer.


Oh, and dont forget the W for tonight :)


Is that confirmed anywhere? Or just strong speculation?
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby Crippler » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:00 am

rich101682 wrote:
Crippler wrote:
Crippler wrote:Everyone who took a ride on the JP Howell train...congrats. You own the TB closer.


Oh, and dont forget the W for tonight :)


Is that confirmed anywhere? Or just strong speculation?


Just speculation but I've been following this situation very closely and was convinced even before this game that he was the best option at this point for SVs. The fact that he pitched against 4 different batters, and they didnt bring in someone else to close the game once he was in line for the win..all speak toward him being the closer for the Rays unless he blows it.

Also, he's the most talented other than maybe Izzy who's been pitching in earlier innings.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby Two_for_the_Money » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:02 am

mikerobbjk wrote:I don't know...Isringhausen was waming up in the bullpen. I think it could still be up in the air. Howell deserves it, but I don't know if he ends up with the job.


When was Izzy warming up? I didn't watch the game, but given the ease of Howell's 1-2-3 9th inning, I'm guessing Izzy was warming up when TB was at bat. If so, then the fact that Izzy didn't come in after a Save Opportunity was created (the Rays went up in the 9th)--trusting more for Howell to just finish things himself--is more telling against Izzy than for him. He was probably just being warmed up in case it went extra innings.

I'm one with thinking Howell's the guy till further notice. In my opinion, he's been the guy ever since Choate starting picking up his situational saves. But the funny thing is that despite his superior numbers to the rest of the bullpen, he incidentally leads the team in blown saves (with 5), not that any of those were traditional "closer save opps."
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby mikerobbjk » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:22 am

Izzy was warming up while Howell was pitching in the 9th. I was listening to the broadcast and they said he might be warming up to face the next batter if Howell didn't get the third out. Which is weird because I believe how pitches better against right handers than left handers. I like Howell the best, but I still think that this closer situation isn't solved in TB.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby Crippler » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:05 pm

mikerobbjk wrote:Izzy was warming up while Howell was pitching in the 9th. I was listening to the broadcast and they said he might be warming up to face the next batter if Howell didn't get the third out. Which is weird because I believe how pitches better against right handers than left handers. I like Howell the best, but I still think that this closer situation isn't solved in TB.


I'm not sure what you would really expect though...doesnt a coach always need to have someone warming up in the pen just in case? I mean if Howell walks the bases loaded, it would be nice to have someone warm enough to replace him...

Since he didnt struggle at all (retiring 4 straight batters), I think its safe to call him the closer. As with just about every team, they will have another option to take over (izzy) if he struggles a lot in the future.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby deerayfan072 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:41 pm

Crippler wrote:
mikerobbjk wrote:Izzy was warming up while Howell was pitching in the 9th. I was listening to the broadcast and they said he might be warming up to face the next batter if Howell didn't get the third out. Which is weird because I believe how pitches better against right handers than left handers. I like Howell the best, but I still think that this closer situation isn't solved in TB.


I'm not sure what you would really expect though...doesnt a coach always need to have someone warming up in the pen just in case? I mean if Howell walks the bases loaded, it would be nice to have someone warm enough to replace him...

Since he didnt struggle at all (retiring 4 straight batters), I think its safe to call him the closer. As with just about every team, they will have another option to take over (izzy) if he struggles a lot in the future.



I dont see anyone warming when Papelbon, Krod, Nathan, Jenks, Capps, Broxton, Rivera, etc. are pitching. If someone is the "closer" i don't typically see a coach warming someone. You go with a guy.

As far as Howell, he is def pitching the best and hopefully that means Maddon gives him more shots, but he still likes his matchups.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:56 pm

so as far as RHPs go, izzy is ahead of wheeler now?
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby Two_for_the_Money » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:29 pm

mikerobbjk wrote:Izzy was warming up while Howell was pitching in the 9th. I was listening to the broadcast and they said he might be warming up to face the next batter if Howell didn't get the third out. Which is weird because I believe how pitches better against right handers than left handers. I like Howell the best, but I still think that this closer situation isn't solved in TB.


The broadcast analysis seems a bit misleading; Howell goes 1-2 in the inning and then they think Maddon's thinking "Well, if this 3rd batter gets on, even though Howell's just got two outs, than I'm going to Izzy." :-?

I'm thinking Izzy was warming up in case Howell let in the game-tying run. That's a lot different than having him warm up in case he doesn't get the third out. There was nothing Howell did yesterday to justify that sort of lack of confidence.
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Re: 2009 Closers Thread (No Game Commentary Please)

Postby Two_for_the_Money » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:52 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:
Crippler wrote:
mikerobbjk wrote:Izzy was warming up while Howell was pitching in the 9th. I was listening to the broadcast and they said he might be warming up to face the next batter if Howell didn't get the third out. Which is weird because I believe how pitches better against right handers than left handers. I like Howell the best, but I still think that this closer situation isn't solved in TB.


I'm not sure what you would really expect though...doesnt a coach always need to have someone warming up in the pen just in case? I mean if Howell walks the bases loaded, it would be nice to have someone warm enough to replace him...

Since he didnt struggle at all (retiring 4 straight batters), I think its safe to call him the closer. As with just about every team, they will have another option to take over (izzy) if he struggles a lot in the future.



I dont see anyone warming when Papelbon, Krod, Nathan, Jenks, Capps, Broxton, Rivera, etc. are pitching. If someone is the "closer" i don't typically see a coach warming someone. You go with a guy.

As far as Howell, he is def pitching the best and hopefully that means Maddon gives him more shots, but he still likes his matchups.


That's just it, it's not like Maddon has annointed Howell as "closer." Maddon just doesn't think that way. He's certainly a better manager than Acta's annointing MacDougal out of nowhere (that's a disaster waiting to happen). Plus, why would Maddon want to put added pressure on Howell if Howell hasn't really even had an opportunity to take the role by the horns?

I think what Crippler, I, and other Howell advocates are saying is that it looks like Howell is basically the one that Maddon wants to take this thing. Hell, the whole TB community seems to want this, so if Howell keeps pitching like he has over the past two years (and you all should really see that he's been the best bullpen arm not just this year, but last year really too, especially when you factor in consistency), he looks like the guy to beat.

Does anyone seriously think if Howell's pitching alright, Maddon's going to go to Wheeler if a righty comes up, or Choate if a lefty comes up? The point is, even granting that Maddon likes his matchups (his pulling Wheeler for Choate a couple of times confirms this), he does not seem to think this way with Howell, which makes Howell a somewhat clear favorite at this point.

As for the whole "guy warming up" business, I don't think anyone's seriously claiming that Howell is the closer like Papelbon, Rivera, and Krod are closers. Jenks definitely pitching sometimes with people warming up behind him, lest we forget Ozzie Guillen's notorious lack of confidence. Same with Gregg, Rodney, others. While these warm up aren't necessarily as the inning begins, the point is that when someone's trying to take the closer's role in an open situation, that someone is warming up behind them shouldn't be a surprise, or a cause to say, "he's not a legitimate contender." In the mind of any manager with a closer situation, a pitcher won't jump from closer candidate to no-questions-asked closer in a day.

And back when Capps, Jenks, hell, Papelbon and Rivera (likely, someone would have to do the research) were in the process of taking the closers role, that another pitcher may have been warming up behind them wouldn't be shocking.
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