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Is there any way to add Holds...

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Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby Trojan Pony » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:42 am

As a category in a league, without significantly devaluing closers or giving managers more incentive to punt Saves?

My dilemma is that I would like to get middle relievers more involved in the league, but I don't want them to be quite on the same level as closers, and I REALLY don't want any punting going on... I'm of the school of thought that any scoring system where punting is a viable option is a flawed system.

Perhaps there's another category that boosts the value of MR's a little less profoundly than Holds?? It should be something that's fairly independent from the standard cats: W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP.

Any suggestions/personal experiences would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby Trojan Pony » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:58 am

What about K/9? It seems most of the leaders in that stat last year were MR's... But wouldn't adding K/9 further increase the value of high-strikeout SP's, whom fantasy is already skewed towards, and further devalue lower-K finesse pitchers? If I add K/9 should I add yet another category that rewards control? Count WHIP twice? Just kidding.
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby MMBosstones86 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:07 pm

personally what I have done in my leagues is to use save + hold. This gives a great middle reliever better value over a crappy closer.
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby baizboll » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:08 pm

Maybe "Appearances" depending on if the site offers it.
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby Bloody Sox » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:10 pm

Well, I don't think holds actually devalue closers all that much, since there are so many more relievers who can get holds than can get saves. On top of that, predicting holds is MUCH tougher than predicting saves, so the closers are still quite a bit more valuable in holds leagues.

This does not, however, address your concern about punting (I assume you are in a H2H league?). I noticed in my roto league that used to use holds that teams tended to be good in saves or holds, but not both. There just wasn't enough bench depth to address all pitching categories very easily.

Bottom line - I wouldn't worry about it - there might be an owner or two who punts saves (or holds), but why does that bother you? Its all just strategy.
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby koondog » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:36 pm

Trojan Pony wrote:As a category in a league, without significantly devaluing closers or giving managers more incentive to punt Saves?

My dilemma is that I would like to get middle relievers more involved in the league, but I don't want them to be quite on the same level as closers, and I REALLY don't want any punting going on... I'm of the school of thought that any scoring system where punting is a viable option is a flawed system.

Perhaps there's another category that boosts the value of MR's a little less profoundly than Holds?? It should be something that's fairly independent from the standard cats: W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP.

Any suggestions/personal experiences would be appreciated. Thanks!


you can try something like Saves + Holds. closer are less valuable, but adds the middle relievers into the mix

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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby Trojan Pony » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:37 pm

Wouldn't SV+HD decrease the value of Closers even more than just adding Holds would?
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby koondog » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:53 pm

It does decreased the value of the closer, but not a much you might think. Top holds men get somewhere around 20-25 Holds per year but their WHIP/ERA are nowhere as good as their closer counterparts. And there is nothing to prevent owners from punting this category, it is one strategy for a roto league. I would also consider have W-L instead of just W, which increases the value of the top starters/closers. The owners that decide to punt relievers will have a bunch of #3-,#4,#5 starters on their team and that will affect this category.

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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby BooksRnot4U » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:46 am

Holds are erratic so it shouldn't be a problem, but if you are still averse to it then to give a little bit of value to MR you can use K/9 instead of K. BB/9 and H/9 (seperatley) instead of WHIP) and HR/9 as an extra category. Usually you can find relievers that either specialize at one (Groundball specialists) or the top guys will help you out in all four.
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Re: Is there any way to add Holds...

Postby Foxual » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:37 am

I now for the life of me can't remember where, but I have seen a site where SV+.5(HD) is a stat category. It sounds like what you're looking for. Either beg your provider to implement it or go searching around.
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